Scotties Toy Box

July 29, 2016

This is hard for me to understand.

Filed under: Earth News, Ideas, News, Science — Scottie @ 20:13

Jupiter doesn’t orbit the Sun. The other planets in our solar system are so much smaller than the Sun that their centers of mass are deep inside of it. Jupiter, however, is so huge that it has the same center of mass as the Sun. Basically, they both...

62 Comments »

  1. Me and you both, Scottie. . . :). Which is why I read as much Science as I can stand. ..in hopes that some day I WILL understand.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Carmen — July 29, 2016 @ 20:21

    • Yes, I so agree with you. I love to learn. I kind of understand, but what keeps the sun orbiting …. If it is the mass of all the planets then wouldn’t the sun orbit off center and wobble a lot ? Hugs

      Like

      Comment by Scottie — July 29, 2016 @ 20:23

      • It doesn’t because of..JESUS!!! W\hy can’t you simply accept this?

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 29, 2016 @ 20:56

      • in a word.. Harry Potter πŸ˜‰ Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 29, 2016 @ 20:57

      • He’s an atheist, Muslim dog!!!! How dare you!!!

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 29, 2016 @ 21:00

      • I I did not know he was a non theist Islamic canine ? πŸ™‚ I said a word, but then I forgot the word. Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 29, 2016 @ 21:02

      • The sun does wobble (i.e. revolve around its orbit), but since its mass is HUGE compared to the combined mass of all its satellites (planets, moons, asteroids, comets, and other debris) it appears stationary from our point of view. Think of a 400 lb. sumo wrestler swinging around a 40 lb. child on a rope. From the child’s point of view, the wrestler is just spinning around his axis, but in fact he is orbiting around a point in space determined mathematically by the relative masses of the two connected bodies.

        It’s “poetry in motion,” and I feel sometimes like “she blinded me with science!” Listen to Thomas Dolby’s hit song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMWGXt979yg

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Robert A. Vella — July 29, 2016 @ 21:00

      • Uhm… OK I can understand that. I guess we don’t get thrown out by the wobble and keep our elliptical orbit is that mass of the sun keeps us pulled in and Jupiter keeps try to pull us out? Is that right? So that is why we stay in the orbit zone we have, the two masses pulling on us? Thanks a lot. Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — July 29, 2016 @ 21:08

      • Well, not exactly. If the sun and all the planets, etc. did not exist except for ours, the Earth would travel more or less in a straight line and more or less at a constant velocity. This is a physical law known as the CONSERVATION OF ENERGY, and it was described by Isaac Newton in his FIRST LAW OF MOTION (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion). This means that the Earth itself provides the energy it needs to remain in a stable orbit around the sun.

        Furthermore, the sun doesn’t “pull” on the Earth. Rather, its tremendous mass warps the space around it like a bowling ball resting at the center of a trampoline. Imagine rolling a tennis ball (analogous to Earth) at an oblique angle on the trampoline. Its course would curve around the bowling ball (like a planetary orbit); and, if it had sufficient speed and didn’t suffer a loss of speed from friction with the trampoline mat, it would continue to curve around the bowling ball forever.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Robert A. Vella — July 29, 2016 @ 21:32

      • I have one more question thanks

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        Comment by Scottie — July 29, 2016 @ 22:06

      • I understand the bowling ball situation. But how does the mass of a second bowling ball of similar mass, but far more distant from the tennis ball affect the motion of the tennis ball? In other words Jupiter has the same mass as the sun, yet is farther away, does it affect or orbit also? Thanks, I am learning about this here and I love it. Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — July 29, 2016 @ 22:10

      • The sun comprises 99.8-99.9% of all the mass in our solar system! That tiny remaining .1-.2% accounts for all the planets, moons, asteroids, comets, and other debris! Pretty amazing, isn’t it?

        Jupiter is by far the largest planet, but its mass is only 1/1000th that of the sun (see: http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/ita/08_1.shtml).

        So, my trampoline analogy with a bowling ball and tennis ball are obviously not to scale. The correct scale would be difficult to visualize because of the huge differences in mass and the vast distances between the sun and planets; but, I’ll try.

        Imagine a trampoline the size of a football field with a bowling ball at the 50 yard line as the sun. At about the 46 yard line, a grain of sand would represent the Earth; and, a marble would represent Jupiter at about the 30 yard line. At the goal line would be Neptune about the size of a pea. All these warp the space around them as I described previously, but the warping caused by the sun (the bowling ball) is enormous in comparison. The grain of sand (Earth) just 4 yards away from the bowling ball would hardly even feel the warping caused by the marble (Jupiter) several times more distant.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Robert A. Vella — July 30, 2016 @ 00:13

      • That is what I thought, but I read that thing “did you know”I posted about Jupiter having the same center of mass as the sun and I thought it was saying that the sun and Jupiter had the same mass. SO as I had read before and seen shows that describe what you write, I think there must be a difference between mass and center of mass. Now I know that on a person the center of mass is the middle point. So I don’t feel as dumb as I did before we discussed this because I did have a basic understanding of it, what I lack is an understanding of how the sun and Jupiter can have the same center of mass. A planet’s center of mass would be its middle inside. The sun’s mass is so much greater that it makes no sense to me that just because each has a center in the middle ( again all of them do right? ) that Jupiter and the sun orbit around a point just above the sun. That throws it all out of whack for me. Well I will see tomorrow if you can help me figure out what that did you know post meant, because if it is wrong I have to delete it, but now I must go to bed. Be well. Thanks. Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 00:33

      • I didn’t read that “did you know” post, but it may refer to the center point of orbit between the sun and Jupiter and not their respective centers of mass. If you want me to check it out, please provide the link.

        All celestial bodies massive enough to form into a spherical shape have centers of mass at their physical cores (i.e. middle point). This includes all stars and what we label as “planets.” This round shape is caused when gravity overcomes the structural compressive strength of a body’s composite materials. Most asteroids have irregular shapes and offset centers of mass due to their low gravity. However, truly perfect spheres aren’t that common among massive bodies because other factors may be present such as “tidal bulging” caused by the gravitational influences of nearby bodies (e.g. Earth-Moon tides), and “equatorial bulging” caused by the high spin rate (i.e. rotation) of certain bodies (e.g. Jupiter).

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Robert A. Vella — July 30, 2016 @ 12:15

      • This is the post that got me so confused and made me think I did not have a basic grasp of the whole gravity and how the orbits work. https://scottiestoybox.com/2016/07/29/this-is-hard-for-me-to-understand/ . I have learned a lot of new stuff from you and even how to express it properly. I know the orbit of the earth is more egg shaped than a perfect circle. On TV they show it round. Are the other planets also egg shaped or misshaped? To me that is an important point. I think that shows a dynamic solar system rather than a static one. Also I know now about the planets and their orbits, and I even understand the idea of a big asteroid belt encircling our solar system, but two things I don’t understand. One the “belt” of radiation that the astronauts had to pass through on the way to the moon, why is that there and not elsewhere? Why is it so close to earth? The second is about this thing I keep seeing on the internet about a planet on the other side of the sun. I was never taught this in school. I don’t see how some people claim this yet all Nasa and educational videos don’t show it? Is this just a nut theory from conspiracy wackos ? One last thing which I have tried to read on and can not seem to understand, there are some bodies in space that do not spin on their axis. I have read the moon is one, it always show the same side to the earth? I have read science fictions books that often have a planet with a permanent dark side and a permanent light side? This confuses me. I thought all planets and moons had a spin. IS it true that some are still orbit a sun or a mass body? Can you help me understand? I thank you for your time on this. I realize it may be trivial to you, but to me it is confusing and very interesting. I thank you for spending the time to help me understand. Be well, many hugs.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 17:39

      • Wow, that’s a lot to chew on! I’ll answer what I can.

        The correct term for “egg shaped” orbits is “elliptical.” Science typically represents the orbits of our 8 planets as circular only because they are nearly so. Their eccentricity is small compared to Pluto which has a much more pronounced elliptical orbit, and that’s one of the reasons why Pluto was demoted from planetary status. The reason why perfectly circular orbits don’t really exists is because: 1) planetary orbits are perturbed by a myriad of external forces (e.g. other nearby planets), and 2) nothing in nature is ever completely perfect.

        Space is filled with all sorts of deadly radiation, from the electromagnetic (e.g. x-rays) to the particle varieties (e.g. cosmic rays). The sun emits a tremendous amount of both, and particle radiation is trapped by the Earth within its magnetic field (which is generated at its center by the rotational dynamics of its solid inner and liquid outer iron cores). The Moon astronauts had to transverse this zone.

        Since all the planets revolve around the sun at different rates, some are inevitably on this side, that side, and every side. Does the sun have another planet that we haven’t discovered yet? It’s possible.

        I know of no celestial bodies that are completely devoid of spin (i.e. rotation). If it exists, it must be extremely rare. The Moon does spin, but since it is “tidally locked” with the Earth only one side faces us. This means that its revolution around the Earth and its rate of rotation are virtually the same.

        No, the Moon doesn’t have a permanent dark side. But, Mercury does have a permanent dark side because it is also tidally locked and it orbits the sun (not another planet like the Moon does). Only one side of Mercury every sees the sun.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Robert A. Vella — July 30, 2016 @ 19:27

      • Thank you. I am going to look up “tidally locked” because I don’t understand it. I understood the part about Earth’s magnetic core protecting us from solar radiation as I saw that on Nova. I guess if I understand you correctly that same protection also creates a band of strong radiation around our planet that astronauts have to go through? So as you are saying the moon doesn’t have a dark side then we have seen and been able to map the whole moon? Lastly I understand you to say that if a space mass, big enough to be round ) has an orbit that is “way out of normal” then that can be used to determine its nature? I guess what confuses me is why those with really wobbly orbits, those that the orbit is all over, they just don’t either get sucked into the sun, harming the rest of us, or get thrown out into deep space. Thanks for your help, I know you must have other things you would rather do. I am going to go look up Tidally lock on google. I may not understand it but I will learn as I go. ( I have not heard the term explained before ) Thanks, be well. Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 19:59

      • Yes, we have mapped the “dark” side of the Moon but this wasn’t possible until the age of spaceflight.

        Yes, planetary bodies with highly elliptical, highly eccentric orbits can either fall into the sun (or into a planet) or be flung out of the solar system. For smaller bodies, this occurs quite frequently.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Robert A. Vella — July 30, 2016 @ 21:46

      • Thank you. I think I got a basic understanding. I appreciate the help. I wish more people would try to understand than turning to ” I can’t figure out how it happened so God must have done it”. Yes learning can be hard, but it also is such a rush when you get to understand something. I often rush out to Ron and want to tell him what I learned and realize due to his lack of enthusiasm that he either already knew that or he just doesn’t care. I want to learn everything I can before I die. That is what frustrates me sometimes about people who say they don’t need to learn because god did it. No if you don’t understand it, then try to learn, just don’t pass it off on a mythical deity. Any way. Thanks again. Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 21:55

      • Closed minds don’t need a god to justify their ignorance, but it certainly helps.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Robert A. Vella — July 30, 2016 @ 22:00

      • Yes I agree. I just watched a Nova Show on the raising and taking away of that cruise ship that wrecked on the reef.

        https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S9D8480/ref=dv_web_wtls_list_pr_1
        Follow the epic operation to secure, raise and salvage the Costa Concordia cruise ship.

        Without science and learning they would never have been able to do this. No God did it for them. humans did it with science. that is why I think learning is so important. Hugs.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 22:07

      • “The correct term for β€œegg shaped” orbits is β€œelliptical.” The correct term for egg shaped heads is “egg head”, hence, my nick name.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 30, 2016 @ 20:02

      • πŸ™‚ I really pity the fool who tries to insult you by calling you an “Egg Head”.. I suspect his ass sphincter will be tidally locked for some time!! πŸ˜‰ Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 20:04

      • I AM an egghead, and damn proud of it. I’m part of the Eggheads of America Union. πŸ™‚

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 30, 2016 @ 20:12

      • You go sir egghead! May the fowl that laid you be worshiped for the gift it gives us. Be well. Hugs ………..
        ps. is there a cracked union the rest of us can join…Oppss

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 20:14

      • I’ve been called the worse names you can imagine by those who supposedly cared most. Nuttin’ bothers me! Except the gas house effect on Venus. That really sucks.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 30, 2016 @ 20:13

      • I once was downwind of a chicken farm and I thought that was the worst thing ever! It seemed the feces floated on the breeze right up into your open orifices. My nose took a vacation and I couldn’t smell for two whole weeks. Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 20:16

      • It’s believed by many who don’t know jack shit that the gas house effect on Venus was, indeed, caused by chicken shit. Amazing, eh?

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 30, 2016 @ 20:21

      • Oh yes.. and that I can believe. I wonder… to get your vast storehouse of knowledge did you have to study in a monastery of monks on the top of a huge mountain, with nothing but cold stone to sleep on and rope bridges over huge chasms to get to the local dinner to have lucky charms for breakfast ??? Is the wisdom you share forbidden to the rest of us “unenlightened” folk ? Do you worry about them catching you sharing this knowledge ? Be safe. Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 20:26

      • I have great knowledge about things I can say loudly and authoritatively. My skills at pontificating about shit I know nothing about make me an expert on all things that exist, and my knowledge of nothing makes me an expert on everything. $Amen$

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 30, 2016 @ 20:38

      • well said sir! Hugs

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        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 20:40

      • Inspired knows enough to be dangerous. . .or is it dangerously funny? πŸ˜‰

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Carmen — July 30, 2016 @ 21:31

      • πŸ™‚ Both I think. Well Said Carmen Many hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 21:45

      • Dangerous due to eggheadedness, I’d say. πŸ™‚

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 30, 2016 @ 21:46

      • Well, as long as your head doesn’t crack like an egg then its okay! πŸ™‚

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Robert A. Vella — July 30, 2016 @ 21:50

      • Oh, I’ve been “cracked up” for decades now. πŸ˜€

        Liked by 2 people

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 30, 2016 @ 22:03

      • Speaking of such things, I just read through a post on BLM on violetwisp’s blog. I’m telling you guys, if you want to read ‘cracked’ in action, just read any of Trib’s comments (now he seems to be spelling his moniker, ‘Tiribulus’) As Victoria would say, “Oh, my Google!”

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Carmen — July 30, 2016 @ 23:02

      • πŸ™‚ thanks I will go read it. Many hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 23:35

      • Ugh!

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 30, 2016 @ 23:36

      • Uhm.. I feel I missed something here… Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 23:37

      • That’s what she said.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 30, 2016 @ 23:40

      • Cool, but that is not something I would brag on.. just saying Dude? Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 23:44

      • She also said that.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 30, 2016 @ 23:46

      • Carmen can you give me a link, I can’t find it on a web search. Thanks. Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 23:38

      • Never mind I think I found it. Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 23:39

      • OH MY By the hair on my cats… Carmen you read all this stuff ??? I have only gotten through four and I want to throw up. No I am serious this is deranged stuff I wouldn’t ask a nice person to wade through. I will keep reading these comments but dear I hope you took a shower after reading them. πŸ™‚ Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 31, 2016 @ 00:08

      • I think it gives people a glimpse into the fundamentalist mindset. . .scary, eh?

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by carmen — July 31, 2016 @ 00:17

      • scary yes! I have faced hate and stuff as a young gay man, but now in my area and my age I don’t see it. Then to read such hate and disrespect in so many comments..I admit it took me back and got me upset. I guess it is a good thing it upsets me, but boy it makes me wish I could fight against it the way those on the blog did.. and then I realized that the haters were not hearing what was written, it made no difference to them. They got their hate out there and nothing anyone, not me or those arguing could say, type, or do , would make any difference to them. Then that made me sad. I realized it was not me that was lacking or deficient but the very ones I would want to argue against. and no matter how much I would scream, they wouldn’t ever hear me. Hugs and best wishes.

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 31, 2016 @ 00:57

      • Carmen I love you. Wow oh wow I am still stunned over the hate in the world. Be well. Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 31, 2016 @ 00:19

      • Correction: Only one side of Mercury EVER sees the sun.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Robert A. Vella — July 30, 2016 @ 19:34

      • thanks.. looking up Tidally locked.. Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 20:00

      • First thing I found.. Doesn’t explain it, but I am still looking…Tidal locking (also called gravitational locking or captured rotation) occurs when the gravitational gradient makes one hemisphere of a revolving astronomical body constantly face the partner body. This effect is known as synchronous rotation. Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 20:02

      • Exactly, bravo!

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Robert A. Vella — July 30, 2016 @ 21:48

      • πŸ˜€ Great thanks Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — July 30, 2016 @ 21:56

  2. That’s how Jesus wants it to be. πŸ™‚

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 29, 2016 @ 20:22

  3. Sorry, Scottie – I left you that message and then went outside with my granddaughters. But I see you found the link! Inspired, I laughed out loud when I read through your comments. .. :). I had a 4-yr-old drop down and say she couldn’t walk any further about a quarter mile from the house so I needed a laugh! (And she knows I’m not going to carry her)
    (She just said to me, “I will have no more walks – I get too tired!”).

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Carmen — July 31, 2016 @ 00:15

    • I think I love her!!!! I did not mean to dump on you at all, I was just so stunned at what I was reading it came out. But I have to tell you as tilted as the comments made my world, your comment about your granddaughter was just what I needed to put my world right side up. We live to make a better world for them! If we can’t do that then we should move aside. You do a grand job. I admire the things you do with family and the grand kids. That is the future and if anyone can’t see it then they need better glasses than my eye doctor can proscribe. πŸ™‚ Thanks and much love. Hugs

      Like

      Comment by Scottie — July 31, 2016 @ 00:48

    • Laughed out loud? At me? As an egghead, that makes me proud. God bless Donald J. Trump and all the women lucky enough to have slept with him. Yummy!

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 31, 2016 @ 00:54

      • Are you sure the women feel that way also ???? Hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 31, 2016 @ 00:58

      • Of course. Have you ever seen a more handsome man? πŸ™‚

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — July 31, 2016 @ 01:22

      • Never sir… you are the trum…. uhm… you are the greatest. πŸ™‚ hugs

        Like

        Comment by Scottie — July 31, 2016 @ 01:25


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