Scotties Toy Box

December 9, 2017

Thoughts about Gods. Hugs

Filed under: Atheism, meme, Political, Questions, Religion — Scottie @ 10:13

 

35 Comments »

  1. We must remember that Mr Hitchens is presenting a book cover and overlook the simplification. The difference between humans and chimps is enormous, not genetically , and that makes it all the more remarkable. In fact Darwin’s friend and co discoverer of natural selection found it impossible to believe that the human mind had been produced by natural selection. Poor Alfred Wallace became a spiritualist and sought other explanations. Steven Pinker in his book The Way the Mind Works attempts to explain the Wallace Paradox since he does believe our minds were a result of natural selection. Many modern thinkers believe it is all a result of the development of language that set us apart and resulted in the enormous division we see today.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by kertsen — December 9, 2017 @ 12:27

    • Hello Kertsen. Many species have a common language. However the quote works because it is true, both in the god is made by man aspect and the fact that man acts just as animalistic as any other primate. We just dress it up better. Have a great weekend. Hugs

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Scottie — December 9, 2017 @ 12:33

  2. Man has a dual nature due to his self -awareness , he examines his actions and judges them. We are moral beings and as Freud made clear we are at war with ourselves. That means we can feel guilty and it is how the concept of sin came about. Other primates have no guilt they will strike and destroy without consideration. At one time I expect we ate those of opposing tribes but not our own. The world is largely governed by raw ambition to survive and succeed at all costs , but not entirely, many give their time and efforts to others putting aside their own ambitious desires. Mr Hitchens tended to see things in black and white but like us all he fought for what he thought was morally correct .
    Peter Singer believes we must all improve our morality and advocates veganism or at least vegetarianism. He made me smile when he suggested the only reason students should seek a higher paid job was so they could give more money to the poor.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by kertsen — December 9, 2017 @ 12:56

    • Hello again Kertsen. I agree with some of what you said but disagree with other parts. Man is not alone in the animal kingdom with self awareness, not even among the primates. They have done many experiments with Coco and other primates who have shown they recognize themselves in the mirror and can talk ( sign language )about themselves in a self aware fashion. Elephants are also determined to be self aware. I even read a study once that claimed dolphins were self aware. It seems to have been contagious maybe? As for Freud he has been proven to be a drug using self promoting quack. Oh and I agree with you that we all promote an agenda, people with strong opinions do. I just find some people like Hitchens seem to have the intelligence to back up their opinion and the ability to express it. It is hard to see outside the box. Most can only see outside the box on two sides. Others can see the entire outside of the box and how it relates to the other boxes. Hitchens in my opinion could do that and he was not tolerant of people who refused to even try to see outside the box, he could and did cut with a sharp knife with no mercy. We all walk the paths of life we think are the most important or the best, what is hard is when two ideas come into conflict. Then we can get really thrown over the side of our nice safe ships. Be well and hugs

      Liked by 2 people

      Comment by Scottie — December 9, 2017 @ 13:17

  3. I bet Jesus would vote for the child molester. Remember, if you have read the book his daddy supposedly wrote or had ghost written, his daddy tells those “chosen” to take young girls as sex slaves at various times in the old tasty mint.

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by Walter Kronkat — December 9, 2017 @ 13:01

    • Sadly you are correct. I never believed in that whole what would Jesus do thing. Gods made by man do tend to set a rather poor example. Hugs

      Like

      Comment by Scottie — December 9, 2017 @ 13:19

    • We do not know much about the character of Jesus Christ and if we take the Gospel accounts he is not consistent . Mind you who does have a consistent character I’ve yet to meet such a person in the flesh or in prose. We can be certain he was Jewish and a believer in God , hardly surprising in those ignorant times. The parable of the good Samaritan suggests he was a Universalist and rejected idea of a chosen Jewish race. It is curious that so many Nationalistic Americans should chose to believe in him.
      Posterity abused his character using him as a scapegoat for their own shortcomings claiming he could forgive their lack of moral action.
      The Jews hated him and the Romans were glad to see the back of a poor preacher whose main aim was to improve society.

      Liked by 2 people

      Comment by kertsen — December 9, 2017 @ 14:43

      • I agree. We really do not even know if the things attributed to Jesus were really said or believed by him. Most of the christian religion was created by Paul. I have been trying to educate myself on the ancient Jesus myths and I find that it is very likely that the Jesus of the bible was a composite of a bunch of Jewish preachers and people named Jesus, along with things that were claimed to be Jesus done. I am now of the idea that one single person as the one in the christian bible did not exist. Be well. Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — December 9, 2017 @ 14:55

  4. Well Einstein thought Freud important enough to ask him about how war could be eliminated in a famous letter. They were both far smarter than I am of that there is no doubt . You must beware of being too critical of drugs and self promotion . Coleridge who wrote the Ancient Mariner was an opium user it enabled him to write the brilliant Kubla Khan famous long lasting poetry. As for self promotion is that not what may author or celebrity does. The famous scientists we are able to follow on utube promote themselves.
    It is true that psychology is not a true science in the Popper sense since much of it cannot be falsified but Popper himself pointed out that that does not make any hypothesis useless.
    It is the conscience that distinguishes humanity and it does not develop at a early age often children have no consciences as pointed out in the controversial book Lord of the Flies. We do not know when it appeared or how, it could be that Neanderthal man had a conscience or even homo erectus.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by kertsen — December 9, 2017 @ 14:32

    • I think you misunderstood me. I do think psychology and its sister disciplines are legitimate. There has been a recent rash of stuff come out about Freud. Turns out he was a fraud and made up more stuff than the discovered. He really was off in left field. Turns out he was thought to be a quack even by his contemporaries and as time and study went on, it became more clear.
      https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2017/08/20/freud-the-fraud-a-new-book/
      is one such interesting read. There are others.
      Self promotion at the expense of the truth for a scientist is a huge error. If a scientist promotes an idea that is one thing, if they make up an idea to promote themselves it is a totally different thing.
      The lord of the flies is not a test books, although I do admit it was interesting. Even young children of much younger age can recognize right and wrong, and have empathy. I just read somewhere and I did not bother to store it the age someone figured out kids learn taking things that are others is wrong. but I remember it was young. We know that any species that lives in packs and groups has rules on proper behavior and what is acceptable to the pack. Often pack members will help each other and in wolf packs they take care of the old and sick until they simply can’t. I posted on my blog how a wolf pack moves in snow. The put the older members in the most protected places and traveled at the pace of the slowest member. Quite astonishing really. Hugs

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Scottie — December 9, 2017 @ 14:49

  5. As noted in other comments, there’s no way to know who Jesus would vote for. In the Gospels, he said clearly that EVERY Old Testament law is still in force, as literally written, until the Earth is destroyed. A couple of chapters later, he and his disciples were caught breaking the Sabbath law and he laughed it off, saying it wasn’t that important. The Gospel of John says that Jesus literally IS God, the same God who was a monster in the Old Testament, killing random people and demanding that animals be lit on fire every day. So yeah, I’m very, very unconcerned with what Jesus would do. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by Anderson Connors — December 10, 2017 @ 10:42

    • Thank you for your input Anderson. You have a greater grasp of the details in the bible than I do I think. Hugs

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Scottie — December 10, 2017 @ 10:43

    • There is good expert historical evidence for the existence of Jesus among the experts in the field but little evidence that Moses ever existed as a person. Perhaps one of the best unbiased sites is ‘ The Bible Oydessy’ which has the opinions of many experts in the field. The synoptic gospels Matthew, Mark and Luke are by far the most reliable the Gospel of John was written largely to support Christian doctrine.
      In the western democracies the law is based on the Old Testament ‘ an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth ‘ the revolutionary idea that we should love our enemies is madness but there are some who have dared to attempt such a practice. Generally speaking justice demands some sort of payment for misbehaviour and this is widely accepted throughout the world. The law has been influenced by the doctrine of Christian forgiveness and the death penalty is looked upon with a jaundiced eye by many. I would ask why should we keep a worthless individual like Charles Manson alive at enormous public expense.
      Sam Harris the well known atheist believes that free will and the self are illusions but this makes it difficult to see how anyone can be held responsible for their actions . Thank you Scottie for the information about Freud it will take me sometime to try to assess it.

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by kertsen — December 11, 2017 @ 03:02

      • We seem to be reading and watching different sources Kersten. There is a huge turning of many scholars now that doubt the of a single person the character of Jesus is based on. As for western laws, Most of the laws of christianity came from other sources than the bible originally. Take a gander at this and tell me what you think. https://youtu.be/FLviKiEuj30
        As for the gospels, written way after Jesus was said to live and that disagree with each other, I have been reading the blog of Anderson Connors the last few days and he did an excellent break down on them here. https://andcon73.wordpress.com/
        Here is the review of John. https://andcon73.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/john-review/
        Are you a fan of Sam Harris? I can’t stand to listen to him, he seems to drone on smugly about himself to the point I want to slap my speakers. He seems arrogant and full of self glory to me. I prefer Matt Dillahunty and Aron Ra, speakers like that. Oh well each to their own.
        As to free will, I am of the opinion that we must and do live as if we have it. We have no other way to deal with life so the argument is worthless and to base any legal matter on not having any other choice generally is just not workable. Yes I agree the death penalty is abhorrent because of the many innocent people who are convicted and who were executed. I would rather a 100 guilty people go free than one innocent suffer unjustly. I don’t think Justice should be based on vengeance and retribution. In the end all societies legal codes should be built around the idea of what is in the best interest of ALL the people and how to do it with least harm to any individual. OK the coffee maker just went off and I need a cup, I just got up and the house was cold. Hope this makes sense as I am not quite awake yet. Great day to you. Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — December 11, 2017 @ 07:33

        • Let me give you a little of my background it may help you to see what I have come to believe and how this has happened. I have no higher education and when I retired I resolved to educate myself. I’m 75 now and retired to a coastal backwater on the English coast at the age of 61.
          It did not take me long to realise my limitations with an IQ of about 105 slightly above average and there was a whole ocean of knowledge beyond my Ken. I tried to study the experts but some concepts were way beyond me but I felt I should take them at their word in their respective fields. For example I believe we are responsible for climate change as the consensus of scientists claim. I still try to look to the experts when I can to help me form reasonable opinions.
          I’m sure Christianity borrowed some of its content from all sorts of sources and today it has changed beyond recognition. Some Christian’s natural deny this and I understand their reluctance. Now we have big bang Christianity and women bishops along with the acceptance of same sex marriage. The inconsistency of the Gospels is no surprise perhaps, like us all , Jesus was not consistent and they may well contain errors like any other old documents. The importance of religious documents is not their absolute accuracy but to ask ourselves what value the ideas contained therein have.
          The old testament is largely a history of the Jews ; they were tribal and fought with other tribes and even there own tribal groups. It’s how we all started in families and tribes and the tribal instinct is alive and well. Nations are just large tribes , Mr Trump regards himself as a tribal chief of the American Tribe which must come first. At this moment one third of the world live on $2 per day and millions starve to death while we plan going to Mars. Forgive my wondering it’s a sign of old age and an over stuffed mind.

          Liked by 2 people

          Comment by kertsen — December 11, 2017 @ 16:03

          • Hello Kertsen. Thank you for your story, but please do not feel you need to justify your education or ability to have an opinion. I am interested in why you have the opinions, and I feel discussion should be about ideas and stay civil. It may surprise you to know that I am much like you. I am younger, I am only 54, but I never had much of an education. I grew up adopted in a really abusive environment and have had to teach myself most of what knowledge I have. The internet has let me hear educated people talk on subjects and to understand their reasonings. I know we do not agree on the gospels and we do not agree on deities. I look forward to your answer to the question I asked on the death Penalty. Hugs

            Like

            Comment by Scottie — December 11, 2017 @ 16:58

            • Of course there is an ultimate punishment and it is death before it comes naturally. In times past it was used liberally without thought and it still is in undemocratic countries . Children were deported for stealing even although they were hungry . The pendulum has swung to the other extreme and if we dare to kill we are accused of acting like God. Even punishment has softened to the degree where they are now arguing if prisoners should have the vote. Yet in war we kill indiscriminately even the innocent without a second thought.
              This has largely been brought about by Christian influences and the advance of psychology which tends to lift the blame from the individual.
              Christians believe in absolute forgiveness for themselves and all believers and drive society in that direction , but they know such a doctrine can be dangerous so we have a compromise of a prison system. I believe the government must decide the laws and the punishments and it is up to the citizens to follow them. I may not like the law but if it is democratically decided I must obey the majority decision.
              One of the yardsticks I often hear is the golden rule ‘ do unto others as you would be done by’ , it has its drawbacks as we might all be done by differently. Sam Harris suggested well-being might be a good yardstick for our moral action: if it creates well being then it’s a good action. Vince again those actions that create maximum well-being for the UK might not be so good for the migrants.
              Let me say regarding Sam Harris I’m not a follower of his but he is worth hearing. Remember I could love the music of Wagner but detest his politics. Beauty can , and often is , created by despicable people. We must not look for absolute consistency in the human character but take men and women as we find them. Look for the best in others and struggle to be better in our own actions.

              Liked by 1 person

              Comment by kertsen — December 12, 2017 @ 04:02

            • As for Sam Harris I can not stand his droning monotone voice. I have tried. I agree with some of his written stuff and not with others, but I cannot stand to listen to him from more than a few minutes.

              OK you seem to think my objection to the death penalty is based on it being too harsh. You should have asked. I do not believe in or want the death penalty because it is too easy for those that should get it, and too often in the USA we find out later that those executed are innocent. Yes we have an outside organization who tests the DNA with current methods and they find that the accused / guilty party on death row or executed were in fact not the ones who did the crime.
              I do not even bring religion into this, and I do not base my morals on any religion. I feel our prisons are a true hell for people. From reports they are corrupt and staffed with the lowest paid workers who use their position for personal gain from prisoners. The prisoners mostly fear all the time about abuse, death, harm. They have to join gangs to survive. Our prisons are not about rehabilitation, they are about vengeance and corporations profits. So while I am advocation prison reform, I think it is a much harsher sentence to make a person serve a sentence than get death. Hey I do not think death is a punishment. It is the end of all. There is no afterlife, no heaven or hell. The idea behind the death penalty is a bad person will die and go to a worse place. Well I don’t think that happens. They are already in a worse place.
              Plus Kertsen we know now from many studies that punishment backfires if not included with reform and rehabilitation. Starting from childhood we know now that corporal punishment produces violent acting children. This is not the 1700 / 1800’s , it is 2017. We don’t need to be thugs to stop the acts that are against the common good.
              The golden rule is a good one, it has been in history long before the christian bible or faith. But the better measure of society may be Do no harm. Did this answer you why I do not like the death penalty? Be well. I am on my second cup of coffee and thinking much faster. 🙂 Hugs

              Like

              Comment by Scottie — December 12, 2017 @ 07:03

      • “…evidence for the existence of Jesus…”

        Why was this directed to me? I didn’t suggest Jesus didn’t exist. I suggested that the character “Jesus” in the Gospels is so contradictory that no one knows who he would vote for.

        “…Matthew, Mark and Luke are by far the most reliable…”

        Yet they repeatedly contradict one another and themselves, and present a wholly unacceptable and immoral God, just as the Old Testament did. “Eternal punishment” (Jesus’ words) for the finite crime of unbelief can only come from a sick mind.

        “…In the western democracies the law is based on the Old Testament…”

        Also not sure why you brought this up, and the death penalty, or Charles Manson… My comment is in response to the “who would Jesus vote for” meme above. And no, no western democracy bases its laws on the ludicrous Old Testament.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Anderson Connors — December 11, 2017 @ 10:19

        • I know Scottie does not believe in the death penalty but I do believe some criminals deserve death especially those who show a reckless disregard for others as did Charles Manson. What is your idea of a wholly acceptable and moral God ? Perhaps an all loving God as some Christians believe the new testament describes? The concept of morally demands the idea of justice : is it just to love your enemies? Is it just that we live in a world of incredible inequality? Peter Singer the moral philosopher believes we should be vegans and give our excess to the poor, he made a good case to Sam Harris who was very apologetic about his life style.
          Contradictory traits in the human character is very widespread ; the SS guards used to enjoy feeding the birds and listening to Beethoven.

          Liked by 1 person

          Comment by kertsen — December 11, 2017 @ 16:27

          • Hello Kertsen, I know you are talking with Anderson but mind if I jump in here to talk about the death penalty. Why do you endorse it? Do you think it is an ultimate punishment? Hugs

            Liked by 1 person

            Comment by Scottie — December 11, 2017 @ 16:48

          • “What is your idea of a wholly acceptable and moral God?”

            None of the god claims I’ve heard would fit the description.

            “The concept of morally demands the idea of justice…”

            What most people mean by “justice” is “retribution” or “punishment”. And morality is just a code of behavior; it can demand anything you want it to. My own code of morality does NOT include retribution or punishment.

            Liked by 1 person

            Comment by Anderson Connors — December 11, 2017 @ 19:00

  6. Our own personal moral code can be what we chose but we live in a society and we have to corporately decide how it is to be run. Not only that if we chose to live with all the benefits of society we must accept its laws. If I move to Saudi Arabia I must not drink alcohol .
    I might well decide to watch TV rather than take the poor confined dog out for his run its on my conscience . I might decide to watch rather than read the children a bedside story or talk to my wife but often we know inside the best course of action.
    I would be very interested to know how you would run a family or a society without retribution. I have four almost middle aged children in the fast lane now and bringing them up was more than a challenge it was at times impossibly difficult.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by kertsen — December 12, 2017 @ 04:14

    • Congratulations on raising children, it is a tough job and can be made harder when in a place or time where there is not enough money or food.
      By “without retribution” what do you mean. It is too vague for me to get your point. Now I do take a progressive look at prison and punishment. I think it is norway that has the prison Island which treats prisoners as people , humanely and with respect , and they learn skills and a trade. They become better people. I am seriously against the prison system in the USA like animals and is all about punishment. It doesn’t do anything to rehabilitate and only preputlate prisons and crimes. IF you take a person and treat him like an animal trapped in a dangerous cage he will act like an animal trapped in a dangerous cage…even when he is released. For example, here in the states we take people, mostly minorities and give them harsh prison terms for low infractions. They try to survive that environment and become very damaged beings, when they get out the damage shows, they commit more serious crimes. Studies on crime and how to run prisons has shown that other methods have better results than simple vengeance and punishment. For most crimes the getting caught is not factored in by the criminal.

      You mention a personal moral code, yet then you bring up Saudi Arabia. What is so interesting to me is the fact the leaders of Saudi Arabia do drink and party like there is no tomorrow. They have huge estates in other countries which they can get away from the eyes of their people and go nutz. The higher on the food chain there, the less they obey their own moral structures.
      I am not understanding your comment as you have written it to answer it well. Are you asking on what do we base laws and societal norms? How do we structure our own codes of behavior? Are you trying to say there is an outside source of all good / morals / right and wrong? Write back and I will have a cup of coffee and we can see if we can have a meeting of the minds. Hugs

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Scottie — December 12, 2017 @ 06:30

  7. I agree there is one law for the rich and another for the poor and that will always be the case while we have rich and poor . We have had a pyramid of wealth since the year dot and that has not been altered by religious teaching or politics. It may surprise you to know I’m below the poverty line in the UK Yet my income places me among the global tip 2%! One way to lead the life of Riley is to get rich and that is why everyone is set on the golden calf. Because the rich in Saudi Arabia slip out of the country to break their own laws does not make the law .invalid. Are our tax laws invalid because the rich avoid them? I have found a general attitude is laws are made for others not for me after all I’m a good person so I don’t need any law. This of course is a Christian viewpoint : laws are for sinners not for the righteous. The problem is we are all righteous in our own eyes. Robert Hare delt with psychopaths for many years and made the claim that 1% of the American population are psychopaths. They don’t all kill but they all disregard the needs of anyone but themselves.
    There is no outside source of morals and I do not believe in Karma as many Buddhists do. You are right we far more often obey do as I say but not as I do. Many religious people believe that men and women can be reformed if treated properly and that wickedness is not really part of anyone’s character. This is a step towards ignoring human nature which contains violence and evil alongside gentleness and goodness.
    Two of my boys fought like demons as young teenagers one day they got too strong for me to separate them and we all ended on the floor with my wife screaming. Now they run a business together and get on famously. Steven Pinker ripped the concept of the blank slate to pieces in his book of that title. We are not blank slates but have a large evolutionary baggage , after all we were made by natural selection to survive not to be nice to each other. We will be nice to each other if it suits our circumstances , a look at the world of business confirms this fact. So the question is have we advanced morally as well as technologically. My answer is no, we are still intelligent apes in suits.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by kertsen — December 12, 2017 @ 11:06

    • I think environment plays a far bigger part of human actions than evolution or instinct. Violent people tend to be raised in a way that glorifies or limits the controls of violence. True some people have chemical imbalances or mental illnesses. Our natures can be overcome with training and effort. We need not be the savage self. This is not from a deity or Gods, but from the very societies and civilizations we create. Hugs

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Scottie — December 12, 2017 @ 11:12

    • Oh and on different legal results for different people, it goes far beyond money. It is in large part I think any difference from the person given authority over the subjects. Remember the Stanford prison study?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

      I look at the majority of abusive conduct and it is in situations are very unbalanced. One person has almost complete control or desires to have complete control. even boyhood squabbles and fights can be put in that category of demanding control over another, especially if the other is different from them.

      I do not think business is a good example. Businesses have a built in goal so they can not be used as a normative comparison. Here in the US businesses are required to make money for their shareholders by law. The ones in charge must do what they can to increase profit of the company. This is one reason we need strong regulations to regulate the playing field of business so they are kept from going completely batshit and destroying everything to gain advantage.
      Hugs

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      Comment by Scottie — December 12, 2017 @ 11:55

  8. I’ve hit the difference in our outlooks . You believe human nature can be improved with training and effort but I do not believe that is the case. Any individual or group will react differently under different circumstances and to my mind having read the Stanford experiment that is all it proves. Different individuals have different breaking points , some survive , some go under and that applied to the first homo sapiens who walked out of Africa. The psychiatrists couch just tries to change the way the patient perceives their environment and that does the trick .
    Ask yourself how has the world changed in the last few thousand years and you will see it has changed enormously by scientific advance and the population has greatly increased. We still have a pecking order there is no level playing field . The pyramid of wealth still stands as strong as ever and it will so stand until disaster strikes. When civilisation fragments it will gather itself again in the same way as before . Some maintain artificial intelligence will out pace us and make us redundant. It needs no air and no food it can easily fly and the stark conditions of space will not bother it. It can live forever it has no biological clock and no emotions to hold it back. In his book The Blind Watchmaker Richard Dawkins muses on such a future ; carbon based life , he holds , is doomed to extinction. An interesting man is Dawkins when he unleashes his imagination from the shackles of evolution. Artificial intelligence must be quick for our time is numbered and we seem set on not tackling urgent problems.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by kertsen — December 12, 2017 @ 13:34

    • Ah, yes we do see humans and human nature differently. Well I guess that does get to the crux of it. If you think that all humans will act the same under the same stimulations. I do not. I do think humans can improve and be better tomorrow than they are today. I base this on both personal experience and the comparisons of other nations to the US. I also see how emotions get battled out here, the negative ones versus the progressive positives one.
      Lastly I think humans will go on to increase their length of time in life. We do know it can be done with the right balance of diet, exercise and of course better medical treatments. Look at the ages we can live to now compared to the past. I like Dawkins also but I am not sure I share the idea that artificial intelligence will supplant us. Without negative emotions there is no need for a violent turn of events on the part of the artificial intelligence. Hugs

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      Comment by Scottie — December 12, 2017 @ 14:02

  9. You misunderstand me Scottie we are all different and react differently to the same situations. Some are more resilient than others to particular temptations. A look at alcohol problems is a good example some resist , some overcome and some are destroyed. So we need to make all environments as suitable as we can for our population but there will always be failures and successes. Bringing up my family was a close call for us but I was lucky my wife suck by me and she made up for the qualities I lacked. Making a good environment for all is very difficult and is what government is all about ; as you rightly point out some of our more unpleasant characteristics need to be legislated about.
    We have a classic case in the UK now many want Donald Trumps visit cancelled but others say he should come.
    Mr Trump has done America and the world a favour unintentionally he has highlighted the unpleasant side in the human nature of some of the population. You see the real tests in life come not when it’s all smooth and a bowl of cherries but when we have to fight our way through and when we are carried by those amazing individuals who step up in our time of need. Adversity is a marvellous teacher , it taught our distant ancestors how to survive and it is the very very reason we are here. It teaches others how to care about those struggling. The pursuit of comfort and personal prosperity will leave us empty in the long run. Perhaps the greatest fictional tale ever penned was Charles Dickens Chistmas Carol , the miserly skinflint Scrooge was redeemed by visiting spirits at night and learnt how to live. One thing I did when I retired was attend to my lack of reading and bit by bit I read the famous classics of literature which have stood the test of time.
    Professor Penrose does not believe computers will ever be self conscious no matter how powerful they become. He believes consciousness is somehow linked to quantum mechanics and cannot be replaced by mere vast quantities of data.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by kertsen — December 13, 2017 @ 03:35

    • Adversity is a marvellous (sic) teacher … It teaches others how to care about those struggling.

      Two excellent … and very true … observations. Too bad some in the Halls of Power have never experienced it. 😦

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Nan — December 13, 2017 @ 12:33

      • Comfort in life is never complete struggles to on even in the Halls of Power and fate can bring disaster at any time.
        Uneasy is the head that wears the crown.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by kertsen — December 13, 2017 @ 13:53

  10. ‘Sweet are the uses of adversity ,
    Which like the toad , ugly and venomous,
    Wears yet a precious jewel in his head.’

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by kertsen — December 13, 2017 @ 13:48

  11. I had a good laugh at the post, and I admire your patience in these discussions.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Ellen Hawley — December 20, 2017 @ 10:46


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