Scotties Toy Box

September 30, 2018

Creating Islam

Filed under: Atheism, Cartoons, Memes, Questions, Reason, Religion — Scottie @ 10:32

Happy International Blasphemy Day.

177 Comments »

  1. This could just as easily be Christianity

    Liked by 3 people

    Comment by maryplumbago — September 30, 2018 @ 12:50

    • Yes it could. Hugs

      Like

      Comment by Scottie — September 30, 2018 @ 15:18

    • Christianity and Islam are made from basically the same poisonous ingredients and recipe. Only the seasonings are different. And the only reason Christianity has become less toxic is that people in the West have learned to take it in a much diluted form.

      Liked by 2 people

      Comment by Infidel753 — September 30, 2018 @ 19:30

      • Yes ! So well said. But about your point about Christianity being less toxic. I live in south west Florida. My main religious threat is from fundamental Christians. Yes they assault and harm gay people, and claim it is because god hates us. Why are the more of a threat than Islam that also has hate toward gays and wants them put to death? Because Islam is not so prominent here. Islam doesn’t have the assumption of privilege that Christianity has. So Muslims don’t push for their religion made into laws like Christians do. Also Islam doesn’t have the support system that fundamentalist Christians do. So as I tell people, the religion most at a threat to me here in the USA is Christianity, not Islam. Every time I write this people say “oh Islam throws people like you off of tall buildings”. Yes they do, but not here in the USA. Then they go on to tell me how much Islam hates gays, and I remind them of the Phelps clan and their God hates fags web site and protests against gays. Heck Matt Powell a 22 your old independent baptist declared in a video that the government should put gays, and also dissonant children, to death because that is what the bible says to do. Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Scottie — September 30, 2018 @ 19:44

  2. Great cartoon, especially on International Blasphemy Day! I’m surprised I hadn’t seen this one before.

    He’s cooking up a pretty big pot — but billions have been “served” with that poison over the last 14 centuries.

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by Infidel753 — September 30, 2018 @ 18:48

    • And that is scary. I wonder if there were no blaspheme laws would Islam be so strong anywhere? Hugs

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      Comment by Scottie — September 30, 2018 @ 18:58

      • Religion in general can’t survive open challenge and debate. It depends on fear, enforced respect, and threats (like blasphemy laws) to survive.

        Islam is already being undermined to an enormous degree in the Middle East with the free access to information the internet makes possible. The Arabic translation of Dawkins’s The God Delusion has been downloaded there more then ten million times, for example, even though it’s banned in every Arab country.

        Liked by 2 people

        Comment by Infidel753 — September 30, 2018 @ 19:29

        • I love it. The more religion gets shown for the weak thing it is , the more people can turn away from it, the better for society. Hugs

          Liked by 1 person

          Comment by Scottie — September 30, 2018 @ 19:46

  3. This is a very dramatic and powerful cartoon.

    Is this your own work and if so would you be happy for other people to use it outside WordPress? I am thinking of making it into a placard to carry at demonstrations.

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    Comment by Islam Research Group — October 19, 2018 @ 02:19

  4. Look, this is wrong

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 10:49

  5. I think that you should have studied Islam before posting this. I can hopefully and rightfully prove all your concepts wrong and I’m sure that if you’re a little co-operative, you’ll get me

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 10:50

    • Sorry Manahil, but you can not. See there is no evidence of any deity of any faith. There for al the holy books are unsupported myths and fables. Just stories. If you want to follow a story I would suggest maybe the Harry Dresden or Harry Potter series. Hugs

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 11:04

      • Even if you think it’s a story, I think it’s a very good one. One that is to be followed as it teaches us to be good and oppose bad and so much more..

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        Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 11:10

        • I was following you until you got to “one that is to be followed…” It doesn’t really do that does it. No one has to follow it. Can if you want, just as long as in the US you respect the rights of others, including females. Also do follow the age of consent, marrying kids and having sex with children is not legal even though a lot of priests are doing the latter. The book has a very skewed version of good and bad, and that is the problem with it. Hugs

          Liked by 1 person

          Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 11:19

          • The book does say stuff like that, but we all know that when both men and women are of age, as in they reach puberty, they get desires and it is therefore, best to marry early rather than date and get involved in bad activities

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            Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 11:54

            • NO!!! males and females are not of age when they hit puberty. That is child sexual abuse. Think of what you just wrote and tell me how you figure you and your book are good? Your statement is just rationalization and justification for using a child sexually. Bad activities? Dating is not equal to sexual activity and even if two consenting people of the SAME age do have sexual experiences that is not abuse, and not bad. Marrying off a 12 year old to a 30 year old is. Where do you live that you grew up thinking such a damn thing? I won’t tolerate anyone justifying sexual abuse of children by using a holy book. That makes the book definitely not holy. It also says the person using that idea is not a good person. Hugs

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              Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 12:07

              • Islam does not promote child sexual abuse as two people are not to be forced into either marriage or religion. Sexual abuse of children is justified by Quran because of the people. They forced and linked it to Quran when it is not allowed to force anyone in Islam.

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                Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 12:39

                • Manahil. Please remember what you wrote to me. You wrote when kids hit puberty it is better they are married off. That is abuse dude. I don’t care if it comes from the Koran or from a sick person who want to have sex with kids. No child going through puberty is ready for marriage, nor can they identfiy someone they want to live their life with. Heck most people in their 20’s can’t figure it out. It takes time, you have to grow up first, you have to date, you have to be free to have crushes and to fall out of love. It is normal sexuality and attraction.

                  By the way, so as not to be more insulting than necessary to you personally ( I will insult religion but not people unless they give me reason to do so. ) Do you prefer Quran or Koran as your holy book?
                  You seem to have a different view of your faith than most of your religion. Still you did write you thought it better for a child to marry than to date. Hugs

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                  Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 12:46

                  • I have a muslim friend who dated, what did that friend get? Only betrayel and a broken heart. That is why I’m in favour of a person not dating and yes, dating does not include being physical. I said it is better if they marry as in Quran it is considered bad to be physical and if one gets desires there is also a need to fulfill them and if you want to fulfill them in the right way or Islamically then you should marry someone. The marriage is only permissible if it is by the consent of both the man and woman and not by force

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                    Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:13

                    • A broken heart happens no matter if dating or not. How many people get married excitedly thinking they will be together forever and then get divorced. A broken heart? That is what dating is for , to see what you like and to meet other people. A one time broken heart won’t kill anyone, won’t even cause real harm. However it is much better to find out about betrayal by dating than by marriage.
                      Again if your holy book says kids getting married is better than having a bit of sex with each other then your book is very harmful and wrong. Marriage is not for kids. Desires can be taken care of natuerally through masterbution. It is a good thing and harms no one. If your religion tells you it is harmful, science has show your religion is wrong.

                      Manahil my problem is your holy book requires you to make bad choices and places you in a situation where if you follow the book it is harmful. Such as kids getting married and the mistreatment of LGBTQ people as well as not granting them equal rights. Hugs

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                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:24

                    • Yes, Islam does put you in difficult situations, but all these situations and problems also have a prescribed solution. It is allowed for kids to marry, it is not necessary. It is every person’s own choice. And no religion is perfect even if Islam claims to be perfect

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                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:39

                    • The solution in the Koran may not be real solutions and are often not the best way to handle the problems. Sorry but it is the same with the bible. All these holy books have different solutions to the same problems. Which one you believe is correct is based only on which religion you are.

                      You do know that most people are of the religion of their parents and of the majority of the country they live in. IF you were in the India you would most likely be a Hindu. So how can one faith be right and all the others wrong if the one you follow is a chance of where you were born? Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:46

                    • You’re right, but I actually considered myself as just a humanbeing with no religion. Then, I did a lot of research, read a little bit of bible got some information on hinduism too and then I just read Quran and everything very carefully and if I take it in a positive way, then I was able to accept it as my religion.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:54

                    • Do you need a religion? Do you need an organized ritual practice to be happy or to even have faith? You are a human being who was born with no religion. People tried to make you feel you needed one. You can be a moral good person with a faith and also without one. But I want those choices to be yours, just as I want them to be mine for myself. That is what freedom of religion and freedom from religion means. Too bad so many religious people can not grasp this and feel their god, their deity must be forced on everyone. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 14:22

                    • In the past year, I learned that without guidance we are nothing. We know nothing and without guidance we are going to stumble and fall and might even die doing wrong. Without guidance we know nothing and Quran is a guidance. It is our own choice whether we follow it or not.

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                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 14:46

                    • You are not nothing, you are a human being. You will find guidance in everything in life. Yes there are some good things in all holy books, but they also contain errors , falsehoods, and harmful practices. The people who wrote them did not know any better. We do. Our morals evolved and got better. I laugh at people who say without their god they would do harmful bad things like rape, steal , and kill. That says a lot about them. We learn our morals from our communities and our peers. Morals have evolved and grown as we humans have grown and evolved. We are social animals and so to live in groups we had to have empathy and care for each other. You know you do not want to be killed or have your stuff stolen so you won’t do it to others. Yes some people fail to have good behavior but that is exception , not the rule. Think of it this way. In history there was slavery. Not too long ago and still seems to be in some countries. But the deity of the Bible and the Koran doesn’t forbid it, and even tells how to treat slaves. We know slavery is wrong. You know it and so do I. We are more moral than those holy books. Because they were written by people of their times. That shows how moral evolve. Hugs

                      Like

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 15:09

                    • The Quran does lay down rules regarding slaves and their treatment, but all those rules are good like, we are asked to treat them with kindness and provide them food and shelter and the Holy Prophet(PBUH) and his wives freed many slaves.

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                      Comment by Manahil — November 1, 2018 @ 03:39

                    • Manahil, the owning of a human by other humans is not moral in anyway, regardless of treatment. Humans are not property. You are not property, would you like to be owned by someone else, unable to have control over your own life? The idea that a deity couldn’t say hey how about not owning each other, while making rules for everything else is silly. Hugs

                      Like

                      Comment by Scottie — November 1, 2018 @ 08:26

                    • Yes, humans shouldn’t own another human, but at that time, slavery was everywhere, even after wars there were many captives and slaves, but Muslims gave them freedom. Like, one of the rule for an educated slave was to teach 10 Muslim children and then the slave would be freed without any harm.

                      Like

                      Comment by Manahil — November 1, 2018 @ 23:35

                    • Manahil, first sorry for the delay this morning ( my time ) in getting back to you. I had a few projects to finish up. OK on to the comment.

                      You were correct with the fact that no human should own another. Period. Your deity gave a lot of rules, rules you say are good guidance for today. Is your god all knowing, all powerful, and omnipotent? If so he knows all things, including today , well as tomorrow, and in the past. If it is wrong morally to own someone today, it has always been wrong morally. It doesn’t matter if people did it, because your god gave rules about things they were doing he wanted them to stop doing. But he never said , hey don’t own people. Do not have slaves. The deity could have, it made other rules, but why not this one.

                      It seems that all the gods have the same flaw, they improve on knowledge and morals as the people improve on those things. So is it god leading the people, or the people creating the god they want? Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 08:00

                    • I really don’t know, but I have a few pictures I want to show you as they are related to Islam. But how can I show you those pictures?

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 08:39

                    • You can put them in an email to me if you wish. My email is Scottiestoybox@comcast.net Or if you can post them and then send me the link. I have no way to put pictures in the comments, videos work sometimes, but not pictures. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 08:41

                    • Oh, ok

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 08:51

                    • I levet you a comment on your blog. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 09:07

                    • Yes, got it.

                      Like

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 09:12

                    • Can you please check if you got my email? I sent you an email, but I think that maybe it’s not sent.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 09:13

                    • I can not find it. Try sending it again. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 11:06

                  • I just think that it is better to marry early to be safe from evil, but it doesn’t mean that I’ll marry just now. Like, I have my own life to build and a whole world to see and a marriage is not only about being physical it’s something really complicated so, yeah, believes and actions also differ.

                    Liked by 1 person

                    Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:15

                    • Now that is the first thing you have written I agree with. Take your time, grow up and mature. See the world and fulfil your dreams. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:26

                    • Nice to know that atleast we agree upon something and thank you.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:42

                  • Many Muslims call the book as Quran, but it’s written Koran in many books too just like how we pronounce Uthman as Usman.

                    Liked by 1 person

                    Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:16

          • Even today, in Pakistan, a woman said some bad stuff regarding the Holy Prophet(P.B.U.H) and she was arrested, but now she’s being sent to another country, but the people here are protesting and the whole country is disturbed and no one is safe and only the extremists are the ones who have blocked the roads while the others, just like our prime Minister-Imran Khan- think that is fair that the woman is safely being sent away while the people of the country demand for her to be hanged because this is right and this is Islamic. Even if someone says bad about our Prophet(S.A.W) does not mean that we have to be bad to the person too, but people take out weird logics from the Quran and link it to whatever they think and they consider themselves to be right

            Like

            Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 11:59

            • Yes I am aware, I commented on it to you. How does that in anyway make Ismal look good to you. Even if she insulted a dead religious figure ( who was a brutal warlord according to historical fact ) why is tha ta crime? Why was she arrested? Why does she have to leave the country? That is not good , that shows how bad Islam is.

              Think on it. You admit how bad it is and no one is safe. That is because a religion is in charge of your laws and government.

              The problem we have is your use of the term extremist. If the woman has to be sent away for something as silly as an insult, then you are all extreme. Even is she had insulted your P.M. she shouldn’t be punished. That is barbaric. You say this is right and this is Islamic, which shows you don’t see the problem and how bad religion is. You are following a book written 1400 or so years ago and harming people based on words. If it was not so serious it would be funny. How can you say the story teaches good things and should be followed when it calls for harming a person for saying an insult. Or killing because someone draws a picture of your prophet Muhammad. Hugs

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              Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 12:22

              • It’s not a crime, but she went against Islam in an Islamic country! She was arrested as people go as far as calling offence against religion as crime. She has to leave the country because she can’t stay here. If she does stay here, people, the stupid extremists, would kill her. They would not let her live so, it’s best for her to leave.

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                Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 12:52

                • Manahil is english your native language? You say in sentence one it is not a crime, yet in in sentence two you admit it is a crime. Your admitting the extremist run your country. So the majority of your country thinks Islam means something you do not. whois correct? Really I am not being mean, I am saying you seem to be of a different Islamic religion than the 98% of Muslims world wide. Even in secular countries like England I have seen the polling about how Muslims see Islam and nearly all of the respondents see Islam as what I would call a very strict book of rules that call for great punishments if not obeyed. Most of the time they don’t act on it because of the fact the laws are against them, as it should be. Your case of this woman is a case where it is harmful to have religion making and enforcing the laws. If they were in my country and they tried to harm the lady they would all be arrest and jailed. That keeps them from doing stuff like that. Hugs

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                  Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:01

                  • It is actually not a crime, but the peope made it one. So, according to the people, she has committed a crime.

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                    Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:20

                    • They made it a crime based on Islam correct? so Islam is harmful when it is in charge. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:27

                    • They made it a crime based on Islam, but they interpreted Islam wrong. These people just make their own logics from the Quran and made it a crime. When the Prophet, himself,

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                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:43

                    • Manahil, you have said that often. The problem is your elders and leaders believe in an Islam that is far different than your belief in what the Koran says. Every religion has some followers who either change what the book says to fit a nicer view of the religion, or they simply ignore things that the holy books say that they know and believe to be wrong. But we have to go by what the majority say it is until people like you are in the majority. But that still offers problems. How do you feel about the idea that your Prophet rode ( sailed? ) up into the heaven on a horse? Do you beleive that simply being LGBTQ is a sin? Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:54

                    • I don’t think that being LGBTQ is a sin as people can’t control it. It’s natural, right? So, when it is not their own fault that they’re attracted to the same sex then yes, it’s not a sin.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:56

                    • It is natural and it is often seen in nature. Actually many people get the story of Sodom and Gomorrah wrong. They think the wicked thing God destroyed the cities for was sexual in nature. But God had already decided to destroy them before sending the angels. So the people wanting to have sex with the angels was not the problem. The problem was hospitality. It was very important in those days and still is to some. It is often mentioned in the holy books how hospitality should be given and received. If it was about sex then Lot ( Lut ) would have been just as guilty for offering his daughters up to the “mob”. Plus the entire city was not men and not all the males wanted to have sex with the angels, some had to be pre puberty boys who wouldn’t’ have cared. Not to mention all the incest by Lot and his daughters after.
                      From the research I have done it seems scholars believe that the sin was failing to provide proper hospitality.
                      Religious leaders say homosexuality is a choice. It is not. I think they are stupid for saying this because that means they made a choice to not be gay? That means they could have been gay or straight? What I worry about Manahil is the many LGBTQ people in religous run countries who can be jailed, caned, hurt, or killed if they slip up and just be themselves. Be careful in your country please. Hugs

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                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 14:32

                    • You don’t have to worry. Pakistan is not truly an Islamic country. So muny unIslamic practices take place here so, I’ll be just fine. You’re worrying for no reason. So many other people have the same view of Islam like me, even if they don’t express, everyone else knows about it.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 14:50

                    • Yet they wanted to kill a woman because she was found not guilty of insulting the Prophet? Even not guilty just the idea of that makes it a death sentence in many minds. But you know your country far better than I. What do you think of this article? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Pakistan
                      Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 15:18

                    • Yes, it is right that in Zia’s time, Islamic laws were introduced, but they were actually never implemented properly. I discussed this matter with my mom and she said that the people are angry because the way she has been freed is not right because at first, she was ordered to be hanged and now, they just said she’s not guilty and many people don’t believe that she’s innocent.

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                      Comment by Manahil — November 1, 2018 @ 05:24

                    • she went through your legal system as it is designed? She did not skip courts? So that is the way a legal system works, appeals go to the highest court. Now the real question is not her guilt as the highest court has said she is not. The question should be was she charged correctly in the first place and was the law she was accused of breaking a valid or proper law. Should it have been a law. We disagree on that you and I. THe idea that just because some people didn’t get the verdict they wanted they decided to bypass the laws and take the matter of her life in their own hands. That is wrong and barbaric. The ones you call extremist are showing they do not wish to and can not seem to live in a civilized society. Hugs

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                      Comment by Scottie — November 1, 2018 @ 08:50

                    • The Prophet, himself, didn’t provide harm to the ones who hurt him as the Prophet(PBUH) said, “Allah has sent me as mercy.”

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                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:45

                    • Are you saying that Muhammad did call for harm to others in some parts of the Koran? Because a simple search finds that he did. You know it strikes me that god is pretty weak if he can not make his requirements clearly know without needed interpretation. Hugs

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                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:58

                    • I think that God is much mote complicated than human imagination and that is why he needed a messenger to explain his message. God could also simplify the message himself, but he wanted someone who could relay the message by actions too, which the Holy Prophet(PBUH) was able to do.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 14:34

                    • Is not god described as all powerful and all knowing? If so he wouldn’t need a messenger or any interpretation. Ah, do you think all the actions it is said Muhammad committed were holy? Did he live as christians say Jesus did without sin, a completely holy life? Hugs

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                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 14:38

                    • The Prophet was a human too. I don’t know if he ever committed sins, but comming one is inevitable, but according to what I’ve read the Prophet was always pure and Islamic

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 14:52

                    • What do you mean pure? He was not always Islamic, he had no faith as a baby and small child. He learned his faith just as you did, from family , Imams, and from the culture around you. Again if he had been raised in India would he have been a Hindu? Or if in Italy christian? What about you, if you were born in the USA to christian parents you would probably be a 15 year old christian boy. Hugs

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                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 15:23

                    • First, I’m a girl. Secondly, at the time the Holy Prophet was born, there was no Islam. The people of that time were idol worshipers. Even the Holy Prophet’s uncle and grandfather were not Muslims even if they were descended from Prophet Ibrahim(R.A). Then how can you say that the Prophet leaned the faith from Family and Imams?

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 1, 2018 @ 05:27

                    • Manahil, that is a great question. I took the time to write an email to a good friend who did a lot of research and got a degree on Islamic studies. I asked her your question. She has written about Islam here on my blog before but I can not locate her writings at this time. I did go to google and asked your question. Here is the answer I got:

                      What religion was there before Islam?
                      Religion in pre-Islamic Arabia was a mix of polytheism, Christianity, Judaism, and Iranian religions. Arab polytheism, the dominant belief system, was based on the belief in deities and other supernatural beings such as djinn. Gods and goddesses were worshipped at local shrines, such as the Kaaba in Mecca.

                      I think it is reasonable to see that all other religions were built on the foundation of other beliefs. They took an existing idea and expanded them. Sometimes these expansions were incorporated into the existing religion and sometimes they are offshoots or thought of as new religions. As history shows this has happened and does happen , it is reasonable to assume your Prophet did the same thing. He built on the things he learned and knew and took it in either a different direction or add to what was practiced at the time.
                      I do hope Michelle will answer soon and join in, you will find her very informative and nice. Hugs

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                      Comment by Scottie — November 1, 2018 @ 09:19

                    • We cannot assume anything? Islam came so many years ago. It could be that the Quran was really a message from Allah and not something made up by the Prophet(PBUH)

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 1, 2018 @ 23:39

                    • We have to make inferences based on the knowledge we have. It is a part of how historians work. It is subject to change if the information we have change. Yes it was a long time ago. I am not a historian but there are people who have made it a life’s work to find out all they can and to make the best judgement they can on history. Some are mainstream and some are extreme or on the fringes. There are scientist, biologist , paleontologist, geologist, and many more fields of study that have managed to discover knowledge father in the past than the time of your Prophet. There are astrophysicists who have taken the history and make up of the universe back to 13.8 billion years. So I am sure there is enough information available about the time frame of the start of Islam. Michelle has gotten back to me, she will answer us soon. She is on a very long trip and needs some rest. I am not a historian nor have I researched this, so I won’t pretend to know things I don’t. What I will say is we know how people work. We know how religions split off from one another. We have cases of it as recent as the late 1800’s and early 1900’s here in the US. New religions were created using some of the old and adding new interpretations of the new leaders. So I think we could say it is possible Muhammad did the same. Possible but I cannot say for sure. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 08:22

                    • Yeah. Anything in possible, but I thought about it a lot and if I were given a choice to choose any religion in the world, I would still choose Islam as I think that it is the best of all religions and I agree with most of the things Islam says.

                      Liked by 2 people

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 08:43

                    • That is your right and I support it. Just as I am an atheist because I see no evidence for any deity and a lot of things that contradict the claims of religions. See I like the idea of treating others as we wish to be treated. I would hate to be forced to join any religion just because others belong to it, but if others want to that is their right. The only time I fight religion or respond with an attack is when others force their religion on those who don’t want it. I do not know about your country, but as I posted yesterday, there are christians here who want to force others to live by the rules of their religion and want the government to be lead by their religion. They do not care how others feel or what others think, they want to force everyone to worship their god and do as they do. That never works out well for the people. It is regressive and it tramples the rights of people who are not religious. Freedom of religion has to include freedom from religion. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 08:51

                    • Yes, you’re absolutely right.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 09:09

                    • I am trying to finish a project right now so I may not get to your comments as quickly as I would like. I am hoping I won’t have to go out to finish up but may have to so I wont be around this morning. Hug

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 10:02

                    • Sure. Have a good time. Allah hafiz.😊

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 10:04

                  • Here in Pakistan, people have moulded Islam to their needs. We wear tight clothes and people even date and be physical, have wine and stuff and here people consider Islam as a religion of freedom as no one can force them into anything. There is no punishment for such thing like drinking wine, dancing, gambling and stuff like that, but once any such incident like an insult to the prophet happens then the people just become so Islamic and they make their own logics from the Quran and justify their actions when in actual, the text of the Quran can be interpreted in many ways, it depends upon the people as to how they perceive it.

                    Like

                    Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:25

                    • Sadly I see Pakistan getting more and more strict and religious. The harmful side of religion is taking over. I know of two people in Pakistan who have disappeared after claiming to be atheist. I believe one of them is dead.

                      See this is why religion shouldn’t be running the government, why it is harmful to have it doing so. If your fellow Muslims believe in the goodness of the Koran as you say it is and seem to believe then the majority wouldn’t be extreme. Instead the moderates would be keeping the extremist in check. THe problem with what you say is the do make their judgements from what they the majority think the Koran tells them. It is the same with the bible. My point is the books are fables and myths, and you shouldn’t use them to make laws. Hugs

                      Like

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:32

                    • I think the same, but I wouldn’t go as far as calling the books as myths and fables. I’ll just say that yes, when governing a country, religion should not be brought into matter and when making laws, humanity and the right things should be taken into consideration.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:48

                    • Thank you. That is enlightenment in a lot of places and in some you would be in huge trouble for saying that. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 14:00

                    • I don’t think so, the most people could do would kill me and I’m not afraid to die.✌️

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 14:38

                    • While I agree you shouldn’t be afraid to die, we all will, nor should we want to die before we need to. I think of it this way. It is a waste of what could possibly be for each young person that dies. Every person has much to offer the world and much to enjoy and do through life. I haste to see any life cut short. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 14:46

                    • May you have a long life. Ameen. I better sleep. Goodnight and Allah hafiz.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 14:53

                    • Good night, I have work to do also. Come back anytime you like. Nice to chat with you. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 15:23

                    • It was nice talking to you too. This talk about religion is so tiresome.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 1, 2018 @ 05:28

                    • Tiresome? Do you mean you do not like to talk about religion, or the way some people respond angrily to someone’s religion? I have enjoyed talking to you and look forward to other conversations. Be well. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 1, 2018 @ 09:21

                    • It’s tiresome as I still do not have enough information about Islam to have an actual and proper debate or argument with someone.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 1, 2018 @ 23:40

                    • I am in about the same boat with you. That is why we are not debating. We are talking and exchanging ideas. Please don’t feel you are under pressure to achieve something other than expressing yourself. I not trying to make you change your mind, I am just telling you my thoughts and adding some questions for us to think on. I don’t feel either of us has to prove anything nor make the other believe as we do. I think we are just talking. I do have an advantage as I am older and so have heard a bit more over time, but you are in an Islamic country raised as a Muslim, so you have more knowledge of the finer points of Islam than I do. I accepted your point of people claiming things are in the LOran that are not , or that they interpret them in a wrong way. You have that knowledge. My only point was I wish you could get the larger majority to see what you and your friends do. IF this is stressing you out, we can also talk about other things. You can tell me what your town / city is like, what you enjoy, how your country works. You see I often don’t hear the better things about your country, often the news reported is the bad. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 08:28

                    • Yeah, it is so bad. Pakistan is always considered bad by everyone when it’s actually not. If only I could send you the pictures which I have, you would get to know that mentality of people in Pakistan and it is actually a very few people who are the extremist, but as Pakistan has a large population, the very few people are also a lot in number.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 08:46

                    • I am interested. As I wrote I followed a blog by a man in Lahore and he loved his country but felt he couldn’t tell anyone he was atheist. He also worried that someone would find his blog and find out who he was as he was gay. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 08:55

                    • Ohh, ok. How do you know that the man disappeared?

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 09:10

                    • We talked almost daily for three or four years. He posted often and came to my blog almost daily. Then he was gone right after telling me of the trouble he was having from co-workers and even his boss. Last I heard about it he said he had been notified he was bing called in to one of the upper management’s office. Then nothing after for several years. It seems he would still contact me if he could have. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 10:05

                    • Ohh, I wish the person is alright.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 13:40

                    • Thank you, I do also. If I can find his blog I will give you the link. I have another email address I would like you to try. Others have had trouble with the Comcast one. So try to email me at Scottiestoybox@gmail.com . At this time you are most likely in bed sleeping. Rest well. We will talk again when you have time and want to. Be well. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 13:56

                    • No, I’m actually awake. It’s my friend’s birthday so I’m up till 12:00 AM so that I can post a horrible picture of her and wish her happy birthday😂😅

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 14:25

                    • Ok, wow, so, the email has not been sent the third time too.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 14:43

                    • I think it is Comcast. It does happen that they simply refuse the email. Do try the Scottiestoybox@gmail.com email, it seems to work better than comcast. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 14:49

                    • Both the emails aren’t working. I think it’s because maybe my icloud storage is full.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 3, 2018 @ 04:45

                    • I got your email to my Gmail account. I even answered back. Have a good day. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 3, 2018 @ 08:14

                    • Oh, ok

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 3, 2018 @ 09:02

                    • I finally got a chance to sit at the computer. How are you , well I hope. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 3, 2018 @ 12:19

                    • Yes, thank you, I’m good. Hope you’re good too.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 3, 2018 @ 21:10

                    • I didn’t receive your reply.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 3, 2018 @ 21:10

                    • I will resend it. Hugs

                      Like

                      Comment by Scottie — November 4, 2018 @ 04:32

                    • Ok, thanks.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 4, 2018 @ 05:21

              • No, no, no. The book does not ask to punish someone who insults the Prophet or someone who draws the Prophet(PBUH) the Prophet himself, forgave all his enemies. The Quran teaches us to be merciful. This is the thing I am telling you. The people have made Islam bad by moulding it according to their ways and thinking.

                Like

                Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 12:56

                • Greetings,

                  As to where Islam came from. I studied Islam in college. My professors are scholars on the subject. Some practicing Islam, some formerly practiced Islam. As part of my studies I wrote a Thesis paper entitles the origins of Allah. I scored a 100 percent on it. Even my Islamic professors were astounded and impressed.

                  Islam like all faiths of man has roots in a need. They all arouse from some need at the time. be it a need to explain that which we don’t understand to a need to control people. Islam is a multifaceted faith with Sharia (governing laws), governmental structure guidance, marriage guidance. it was intended to be not just a faith but a complete way of living. at the time on the Arabian lands many tribes existed and they were making war. Life was hard and the people needed direction. So a rigid ideology of how to live, pray and act was enacted and Islam rose to fill this void with it’s laws and structure.

                  Anyway if you want to learn about the Origin of Allah here is part of my thesis (edited down for wordpress). it’s six parts complete with cross references in archaeology, history and linguistics. I’ve carefully tied all of this information into the most cohesive presentation possible.

                  here are the six links:
                  https://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/2014/07/20/the-origin-of-allah-part-1/
                  https://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/the-origin-of-allah-part-2/
                  https://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/2014/07/22/the-origin-of-allah-part-3/
                  https://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/2014/07/23/the-origin-of-allah-part-4/
                  https://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/2014/07/24/the-origin-of-allah-part-5/
                  https://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/2014/07/25/the-origin-of-allah-part-6/

                  I read some Hebrew and Arabic. I have studied religions deeply and can even quote from many of them. I am not afraid to discuss serious topics and I always attempt to do it in a polite, respectful manner. You will find citations in my work but you’ll also please note I am neither Christian nor Muslim nor Jew.

                  Lastly your faith if it helps you live a life you are proud of then please continue to live that way. My goal is never to destroy ones faith but merely to educate and discuse serious topics.

                  I hope this finds you well. Big hugs,
                  Michelle

                  Liked by 2 people

                  Comment by Michelle Styles — November 2, 2018 @ 11:40

                  • Thank you Michelle, thank you very much. This is fantastic. I have saved it in my documents file with all the links. Manahil we will learn together it seems as we read the work Michelle has done. Best wishes. Hugs

                    Like

                    Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 13:44

                  • Thank you. I’ll be sure to read all of it and reply back to you soon. Till then, I hope you have good, happy days. God bless you, Ameen.

                    Liked by 1 person

                    Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 13:52

    • MANAHIL:

      It’s not easy to ‘study’ Islam (may peace be upon it!). I did try, twice—but the translations (may peace be upon them) of course were not the real thing (may peace be upon it!) and I have no knowledge of Arabic (may peace be upon it!).
      But as far as I did read were endless (hypnotic? Certainly intended to be, I think) repetitions of how God (may peace be upon it!) is great.)

      So I gave away the Koran (may peace be upon it!) and left it to the uncritical. I judge, as if my life and survival depends on it (it does). I’m endlessly told how Islam (may peace be upon it!) is the religion of peace (but actually just like every other bastard—endless wars) and compassion (stone ’em, flog ’em, behead ’em)(publicly), and morality (‘marry’ little girls, and screw ’em once nine years old) … sure. Pigs will fly, too.

      Go ahead and take me as a challenge—rebut me if you can, but without reverting to endless quotes from your book (may peace be upon it) or ‘holy’ men (may peace be upon them).

      Face to face … and if my endless references to ‘peace’ come across as contrived and bloody annoying—welcome to your Koran’s (may peace be upon it) style.

      Like

      Comment by Argus — October 31, 2018 @ 16:00

      • Yes, it is not easy to study Islam. Islam is complicated, but I think that if you read it more carefully, then maybe then you would perceive it as good. I do not agree with a few things in Quran, but later on in the Quran, there are specific instructions and applications and special cases to everything.

        Like

        Comment by Manahil — November 1, 2018 @ 05:34

  6. Btw, even if you’re gay, Muslims would not harm you. It is haram(forbidden) to harm a non Muslim until they provide you harm. Peace!

    Like

    Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 10:51

    • Dude that is a huge BULLSHIT sand you damn well know it. We can go through the list of Islamic countries I can be killed in legally by anyone for being gay. Not to say there is not also some christian places I could be killed in. Now in the USA it is against the laws due to separation of church and state ( which the major fundamentalist christian groups are trying to get rid of to create a theocracy ) so most muslims in the US wouldn’t harm me, but they are not really supportive of my rights either. Hugs

      Like

      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 11:08

      • Yes, it is haram for a man to like or marry a man and for a woman to like or marry a women, but in Islam, we are not allowed to hurt anyone. Those who use Islam in the wrong way are bad, Islam is not bad. People, usually those stupid extremists make all those religions much more complicated and make out stuff and relate it to the relatigion in one way or another. You know even when Allah gave the order of Jihad, he said, “Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress.”

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 11:15

        • Manahil, I will talk to you but only as long as you open your eyes and admit how your faith is being used and promoted world wide. Go on YouTube and see the atrocities committed by people of Islamic faith in the name if Islam. The only places where Islam is not hurting people physically is in countries where they are prevented from doing so by secular laws. It doesn’t stop them from forcing rules and restrictions on females that are a violations of women’s rights. If you think about it, how fair would you think the rules are if males were the ones to have to follow all the ones females do and females were free to do what males do now? You really would say this sucks.

          See Manahil the problem is caused when religion is used to control. The best governments are secular in nature because that protects the rights of the religious and the non-religious. And before you disagree think of this Pakistani Supreme Court overturns Asia Bibi’s death Sentence in blasphemy case. A woman was sentenced to death since 2010 because she was a christian and got into an argument with muslim co-workers and they complained she INSULTED islam. Now when the Supreme Court overturned it the protection services ( police ) were trying to block the protesters from doing harm to the judges but the protesters had already taken over parts of the city.

          Now it can be said that there are extremes to all religions. I understand that. Also as you are new here you don’t know I don’t think badly of all muslims. I have no respect for the religion at all, and I think it is harmful as are all the abrahamic religions. In fact if you look back through my blog you might notice I have been supportive of not demonising muslims as persons unless they deserve it. One of the stories I tell is when I was in a wheelchair in a majority christian neighborhood I lost the ability to use my backyard as I couldn’t get to it in my wheelchair. One morning my neighbor Roosevelt Jones was having concrete delivered to make a walkway. When the truck showed up the first two wheelbarrows he filled he pushed up my driveway and to the drop off into my back yard. He built a ramp. He did it first before he made his own. I did not ask him and he wouldn’t take payment. He was a Muslim. More important he was a good man and a great neighbor. The thing was he was a man who had a faith, but the faith did not control him, he controlled it.

          Now I admit I am not as familiar with the Koran as I am the bible. But I have seen and heard enough parts of it to know it is as screwed up as both the old and new testaments of the bible are. If christians lived as the bible promotes they would be arrested and put in prison in as would muslims who tried to live the things promoted in the Koran in a non islamic state. Heck at least the bible doesn’t call for killing someone who leaves the faith. I have known people online who had to run for their lives when they were found out to be atheists in islamic countries. One guy has not been heard from in years, and I suspect he is death or imprisoned. So yes, I view the made up stories and myths of religions dangerous and harmful. Hugs

          Like

          Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 11:48

          • oh my God! No, Islam does not promote killing someone after they leave faith. It is the people who make it that way.

            Like

            Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 12:26

            • The majority of the people following your holy book say it does. Sorry. Hugs

              Liked by 1 person

              Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 12:29

              • Neither can we force someone into Islam and neither can we provide any harm to any person whether they are a Muslim or a non-Muslim

                Like

                Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 12:58

                • See my point is your fellow Muslims don’t’ believe you and your version. Now in the article I cited they do say there is now a debate going on and some Muslims are saying it is wrong to harm a person who leaves the faith. They can still be punished but not harmed. A few do not see it as a crime to leave the faith. That is good, your religion is advancing. However the end of the article shows that even very recently lives were lost trying to leave Islam.

                  As of 2014, laws in various Muslim-majority countries prescribed for the apostate (Arabic: مرتد‎ murtadd) sentences ranging from execution to a prison term to no punishment.[29][30] Sharia courts in some countries use civil code to void the Muslim apostate’s marriage and to deny child-custody rights as well as inheritance rights.[31] In the years 1985-2006, three governments executed four individuals for apostasy from Islam: “one in Sudan in 1985; two in Iran, in 1989 and 1998; and one in Saudi Arabia in 1992.”[23] Twenty-three Muslim-majority countries, as of 2013, additionally covered apostasy from Islam through their criminal laws.[32] The Tunisian Constitution of 2014 stipulates protection from attacks based on accusations of apostasy.[33]

                  Now Manahil, I have just spent a few minutes looking at a blog post that seems to agree with you and says the harmful actions come from hadith. Yet this person is again not an authority on Islam. I take it you live in Pakistan? How old are you? I am going to include a link to a blog I go to where many people much smarter than I am hang out. The blog author posts on many subjects and even includes a lot of pictures. Posts about religion are frequent. You may find the people there have much more knowledge of the Quran than I do. Hugs
                  https://attaleuntold.wordpress.com/

                  Like

                  Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:15

                  • I’m only 15 years old and you might think that it’s not right for me to actually tell you about Islam at such young age, but I have read the Quran and I’m recently reading it’s translation too. I’m not a scholar and I’m just a child.

                    Like

                    Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:29

                    • Manahil I have no trouble with you telling me about the Koran. Your age is only important because some of what you wrote seems naive. Also it does mean I have to moderate my own lagrange in conversation with you because it would be wrong of me to use some words with a minor. It is not your age that is the problem. It is not even really your faith. It is the actions and enforce of your faith on others. Do you see how this is a problem attributed to Muslims and Islamic countries world wide. I am a bit worried about you now as your country as you admitted is going more extreme and your position could put you in danger. One of the people I told you about was like you in Pakistan. He got found out and got on the bad side of the extremest view of Islam. He has disappeared. I think he is either in prison or killed. I would hate to have that happen to you. One last thing, you say you’re just a child, and that is why you shouldn’t get married even to satisfy your desires. They are very strong in your body at your age, it is normal. But as you say, you have a lot of life ahead of you that you want to live. There are other solutions to the problem. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:40

                    • Everyone thinks this way. Many of my friends think the same way too, but we know better not to express anything out aloud.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:51

                    • Again that is the point I was making about bad things religion causes. Like the solution to your physical desires we mentioned before. Your parents and religious leaders have probably taught you that it is wrong , a sin, and that you would be punished. Yet science has clearly shown it is beneficial to the body and emotions. It is this way in most religions. Based on the history of religions, I see religion as a behavior modification tool used to control the population and to move money from the people to the religious leaders. It is all about control, power, and money. But if you get something out of your faith and it harms no one else, and everyone involved consentally I have no problem with it. When it get to the point where others are forced to follow your religion or do do what you think your religion says that becomes a huge problem and one atheist have to push back against.

                      This conversation started out about the cartoon. You feel it is wrong. I feel it correctly represents how about 98% of Muslims act based on the Koran and the preachings of the religious leaders.

                      Again I caution you to be careful, you could be hurt for your views if others feel you are wrong about what Islam is or what the Koran says. I watched a YouTube video of a kid your age beaten because his parents didn’t think he was pious enough. Hugs

                      Like

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 14:09

                    • My parents would never beat me up for not following Islam. My mom does not take a hijab, while I do, by my own free will. None of my sisters take hijab too.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 14:41

                    • OK, that is great. What about neighbors or family of your friends? I hope you are correct and you are safe, yet remember you said that people wanted to kill that woman just for being accused of insulting the Prophet. The highest court found she didn’t do it. Yet still religious people who believe in a holy book and a holy prophet believed their god wanted them to kill her. And according to the story I read there was worry that the Justices would be killed also. Hugs

                      Like

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 14:49

            • blockqoute> According to Abdul Rashied Omar, the majority of modern Islamic jurists continue to regard apostasy as a crime deserving the death penalty.[11] Some regard apostasy in Islam as a form of religious crime, although others do not.
              From Apostasy in Islam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
              Hugs

              Like

              Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 12:33

              • After the death of Prophet(PBUH), many tribes apostised Islam and a war was waged against them only because they did not follow the rules which was to pay jizya(land tax) and zakat(alms), but they refosed. But the people think of it that Hazrat Abu Bakar, the first Caliph, waged war against them because they apostised Islam when in reality it was because they refused to follow the rules of the state in which they were living in.

                Like

                Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:05

                • Do you think it correct to have to pay a tax for not believing in a religion? A person can not make themselves believe or disbelieve. If there is no evidence for a thing, how can you believe in it? See why religion shouldn’t be in charge? Hugs

                  Like

                  Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:17

                  • I do see that. About two years ago I was even stupid enough to pray to God to make all religions go away and for all human beings to just live as people with no differences between them. It was not a tax for not believing in a religion. It was a tax for staying in a muslim area. The peopl could move elsewhere where there was no muslim rule then they wouldn’t have to pay tax.

                    Like

                    Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:33

                    • You were not stupid for wanting religion to go away. Religions have caused a lot of problems and still are. No one should have to move away from where they live and no one should lose family over an idea, an old book , even if the book is special. Hugs

                      Like

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 13:42

                    • Yeah, they shouldn’t, but this exactly how the world works.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 13:52

                    • We are working to change the world, as you may do when you get a bit older. The problem is the most extreme in all the religions are the ones pushing the hardest to make their religion the law and the government. So people see religions getting more and more extreme and more violent. Even here in the US. We are a secular country but there are religious groups pushing to make us a theocracy like some Islamic countries. Yet they constantly claim how bad Islamic countries are. They don’t’ see what they are doing is the same thing. We just had 11 Jewish people killed because someone thought they were evil just because they were Jewish. That guy will go to prison for the rest of his life. In some countries Buddhist are killing muslims just because they are two different faiths and that enrages some people when their faith is not followed as they demand it be. Question: A lot of religions preach that their faith should be spread to the world and take over all other faiths. How do you feel about that? Hugs

                      Like

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 14:19

                    • Islam doesn’t preach to take over all other religions, infact the Quran mentions about christanity and all other books which include Allah and his teachings of oneness. The Quran accepts and tells that these religions are of Allah too, but Islam binds it all and makes it a whole for the rest of humanity

                      Like

                      Comment by Manahil — October 31, 2018 @ 14:44

                    • Ah, not quite so. I have read passages in the Quran that calls for taxes to be charge to and paid by non-muslims. I also think the thousands of years of hate / fighting between people of Jewish faith and Islamic faith would not speak to highly about co-existing with other religions.
                      “Islam had become more clearly defined, and the line between Muslims and non-Muslims more sharply drawn. Muslims now lived within an elaborate system of ritual, doctrine and law clearly different from those of non-Muslims. (…) The status of Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians was more precisely defined, and in some ways it was inferior. They were regarded as the ‘People of the Book’, those who possessed a revealed scripture, or ‘People of the Covenant’, with whom compacts of protection had been made. In general they were not forced to convert, but they suffered from restrictions. They paid a special tax; they were not supposed to wear certain colors; they could not marry Muslim women;.”[14]

                      It should be pointed out that most of these laws were elaborations of basic laws concerning non-Muslims (dhimmis) in the Quran. The Quran does not give much detail about the right conduct with non-Muslims, in principle recognizing the religion of “People of the book” (Jews, Christians, and sometimes others as well) and securing a separate tax from them in lieu of the zakat imposed upon Muslim subjects.
                      So again the more extreme versions were applied. This is not a problem only in Islam but in all religions. They all want to be the top one, the ruling one, the one in charge. We would be better off without them. They are simply control devices that are not needed. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 15:01

                    • It depends upon every person. Some need rules and guidance in life while others don’t.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 1, 2018 @ 03:34

                    • Manahil I think we may have a misunderstanding between us. You said you were a 15 year old boy. However your page shows you as a girl. One of the other comment readers pointed out you did say you don’t wear the head covering. I do not care if you are a boy or girl, but I would ask we try to be honest with each other. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 1, 2018 @ 08:17

                    • I’m a girl, I never said I’m a boy. I do wear a headscarf, my mom doesn’t. It was my reply to your comment where you said that a boy my age was beaten up by his parents and I told you that this wouldn’t happen to me as my parents don’t force me into anything

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 1, 2018 @ 23:33

                    • Manahil, I apologize for saying you said you were a boy. I have read the conversation over again and you are correct you did not claim to be a boy. It was my interpretation of the conversation. Also you do say you wear the headscarf. For some reason in my mind when you wrote ” . None of my sisters take hijab too.” I took that the wrong way. So again I was incorrect and apologize. Hugs

                      Liked by 2 people

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 06:27

                    • Oh, that’s ok, I understand.😊

                      Liked by 2 people

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 06:59

                    • Thank you, but I feel bad about it. I do not like to make such glaring mistakes. PLus it made me feel bad about our conversation as I had a misunderstanding about what was said. Every person has value to me. I tend to treat people as they treat me.

                      So what part of Pakistan are you in? The person I knew online who has disappeared was in Lahore. I worry. The last thing he posted was about a bombing that went off in the city and that he was getting accusations from co-workers about not being religious enough and also they were on him about the wondered if he was gay. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 08:37

                    • Ohhh, I hope the person is not dead. People here usually don’t make religion an issue. I wish you could see it yourself. It’s like Islam here is practically vanishing. Very few girls take hijab(a head scarf). Girls wear tight clothings like jeans, short shirts, crop tops, t-shirts, skirts, frocks, but they do wear tights under the frock or skirt. The guys don’t follow the rules either. They don’t follow their dress code. Men stare at women which is not allowed in Islam. Men smoke and drink. Many have girlfriends. Many are even in physical relationships. And Pakistan is not all bad. It’s just that only the bad things are highlighted about it.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Manahil — November 2, 2018 @ 08:51

                    • I also hope he is not dead. The last posts he made were about a kitten he got. There are good things and bad things about every country, none are perfect. People can only do what we can to make things better for all. Hugs

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 08:57

  7. Manahil, you can see how religion mis-works at the Moment in the USA; it “leaded” a man to become a terrorist by killing 11 jewish people in Pittsburg recently. And trump the Pump refuses to take Responsibility for what Religion made this terrorist do —
    and for what Trump the pump misused th religions for his aims to win the Midterms by any means —– or wrong.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by miles — October 31, 2018 @ 14:07

  8. For MANAHIL:

    the Jesuits (a Christian cult) have a saying: “Give me a boy until the age of seven and he is mine for life!”

    It means simply that if you can control the input to a child’s mind from the earliest you can mould him/her to your own ends, and indoctrinate that child to the point beyond redemption by Rationality.

    This is why I always hammer the point that if Rationality (it simply means understanding reality as it actually is) is to stand a chance then thinking people must teach their kids how to think. Think for themselves, not think as endlessly programmed by any one of the many hundreds of ‘unique’ religions out there.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Argus — October 31, 2018 @ 16:10

  9. I see nothing wrong with your cartoon, Scottie — and to my mind it applies equally to most religions and cults of which I’m aware.

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by Argus — October 31, 2018 @ 16:12

    • Yes I agree. I think Ben might disagree but for me it is hard ignore the damage and harm religions do. Thank you argus. Do you have any advice for me to be better able to have a dialogue with people such as Manahil? Hugs

      Like

      Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 16:22

      • Be aware of what you are up against—an organic robot. Islam is a much bigger challenge to Reason than Christianity or Judaism although the spring from the same sources. But Islam takes it that little bit further with noner of this namby-pamby ‘humantiarianism’ stuff—Islam goes for direct for the jugular and is openly about conquest. So don’t expect any form of reason, nor compassion. It’s fun, but only till a point—after which you’ll flush ’em …

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Argus — October 31, 2018 @ 17:04

        • Thanks Argus. You all have far more experienced than I do. I thought the longer we talked the less religious and sure of his faith he was. But I also did not tell him he was wrong to have his faith, so maybe that gave him room to move some. I don’t know, I think you guys do this far better than I do. Hugs

          Like

          Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 17:47

          • I think your correspondent may be a she rather than a he … but robot is robot either way. It would be fun if they didn’t sidle their way in and then change the laws to outlaw thinking. I hold grave fears for the future of Britain and Europe, but by then I shall be safely dead.

            I hope.

            Liked by 1 person

            Comment by Argus — October 31, 2018 @ 19:11

            • Really? Why do you think the person is female? Do you think I got played and this is a Poe? Shoot I was trying so hard to be reasonable. Hugs

              Like

              Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 19:21

              • My mom does not take a hijab, while I do, by my own free will. None of my sisters take hijab too.

                Liked by 1 person

                Comment by Nan — October 31, 2018 @ 19:36

                • Shoot I missed that. Dang. Thanks all. Hugs

                  Like

                  Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 19:47

                • Manahil is a Muslim Girl name, it is an Urdu originated name. Manahil name meaning is Spring of fresh water and the lucky number associated with Manahil is 4. Find all the relevant details about the Manahil Meaning, Origin, Lucky Number and Religion from this page.
                  Manahil Name Meaning in Urdu – مناهل Muslim girl Name Meaning …
                  https://hamariweb.com/names/muslim/urdu/girl/manahil-meaning_45067

                  Yup I got played. Dang most of my day gone trying to be nice and talk to someone I thought was honest. Rather discouraged. Hugs

                  Like

                  Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 19:52

              • I clicked on her icon and tracked back a wee bit. (If it’s a guy he sure looks quite cute …)

                Liked by 1 person

                Comment by Argus — October 31, 2018 @ 19:42

                • Guess I was a fool. I took things at face value. I got trolled. Shit. Thanks anyway. Hugs

                  Like

                  Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 19:48

                  • Always happy to help and you’re no fool, Scottie. Far from it …

                    Liked by 1 person

                    Comment by Argus — October 31, 2018 @ 21:33

                • I just looked up the name. See my reply to Nan. I am really depressed right now. I thought I was being nice to someone who was just playing me. Sucks. Hugs

                  Like

                  Comment by Scottie — October 31, 2018 @ 19:53

                  • I didn’t read the entire conversation, but from what I did read, I didn’t get the impression you got “played.” I think she just went along with the idea of being a male instead of correcting you. But I could be wrong … as I said, I didn’t read everything between the two of you.

                    Liked by 1 person

                    Comment by Nan — October 31, 2018 @ 20:25

                  • Never hurts to be nice (it gets right up the snouts of the ‘not nice’, which is win/win for the nice).

                    Liked by 1 person

                    Comment by Argus — October 31, 2018 @ 21:36

  10. Dear Scottie, This cartoon you “diskussion ” started with is fruitless from the beginning:
    The cartoon’s topic is more or less the IS. As long, as you do not difine, what Islam you will talk about and this is consensus with the one you will diskuss that Islam, your trials will lead into nowhere. There is Manahils idealized Islam There is that plarctical islam in Pakistan with terror- attacks in- and outside Pakistan. Inside right now it is the roaring Ultraconservative Islam because of this absolved woman.
    The next to decide on would be if one would discuss Sunna or Shia .
    Start to decide: 🙂 and have fun, I would dare to discuss the differen christian religions, as long as they do not unite in “Whites First” as in the USA since short time, or when they unite in promoting Murder, as also seen in the USA lately.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by miles — November 2, 2018 @ 11:22

    • Hello Miles. I agree there are different versions of Islam as there is with Christianity and the extremes of both religion are harsh.

      I am enjoying the conversation with Manihil, because she is being nice and decent. As you know often when you talk religion with someone they get belligerent and in your face, which makes me react in the same manner. As you may have read I use to correspond with a person in her country and he just disappeared. I learned a lot about her country from his letters and posts. Here in the US we here only the worst things about most other countries, especially Islamic countries. It is nice to know there are some decent people there also. Hugs

      Like

      Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 13:52

      • islam is full of very decent people. 1.2 billion Muslims. A small percent are radical people who wish to harm others. Of my professors I still corresponde with them. They are polite, respectful and peaceful people. Like Islam there are bad Christians. They are the vocal minority who spew hate and evil. Religion can be a tool for peace or a tool of evil.

        But I would bet if you meet many Muslims and Christians alike you’d see there are good and bad in each but the majority are good and decent people.

        hugs my friend, I’ll be surfing Sunday as competition begins. But for now a little down time to enjoy.

        If you get to visit a Muslim country I think your experience will vary based on the country. I lovd maldives which is a Muslim nation. I felt safe, respected and secure the whole time. I visited Bali again in a Muslim nation. Again I felt safe, welcomed and secure. I visited Morocco and I did not have the same feeling. As a woman I felt unsafe and the way we were treated was rude. All Muslim nations, very different mix of people and very differnt experiences.

        I believe it does depend on the radiacal element and how pervasive it is in that particular area of the world.

        hugs

        Liked by 2 people

        Comment by Michelle Styles — November 2, 2018 @ 14:03

        • Well said Michelle , very well said. As I explained to Manahil this morning we are just talking and sharing ideas and thoughts. It is not a debate and neither of us is trying to change the other, we are sharing. She mentioned she feels she doesn’t know enough about Islam to talk too much about it, and I told her she knows far more than I do. She is there , she lives it, she experiences it, while my knowledge is basically reading and news videos.

          The only time I fight back against any religion is when that religion is used to attack me or others. I do not wish to undermine a personal code of conduct or ethics, I just don’t want people to force me to live by the rules of their religion. I admit I have a bit of a bad taste for religions because as a gay man they have been used to attack me personally all my life.

          Hey best wishes on your surfing event. I hope you do very well. Best wishes and gain thanks for helping me and Manahil out. Hugs

          Like

          Comment by Scottie — November 2, 2018 @ 14:13

        • Absolutely correct… If some person is bad you can’t directly blame his/her religious belief…. Every religion do have good and bad people…. If we look at history of islam it was prosperous… Have a look please

          http://newsinfield.com/islamic-golden-age-persecuted-present/

          Like

          Comment by newsinfield (www.newsinfield.com) — December 11, 2018 @ 22:33

  11. Have a look at Islamic history… Muslims may be wrong but not Islam…

    http://newsinfield.com/islamic-golden-age-persecuted-present/

    Like

    Comment by newsinfield (www.newsinfield.com) — December 11, 2018 @ 22:30

    • I disagree with your statement that “Muslims maybe wrong but not Islam”. If you are implying the Koran is fully factual, then we disagree. Hugs

      Like

      Comment by Scottie — December 12, 2018 @ 05:36

      • Hi Scottie,

        Hope you are doing well.
        Yes this is what I believe that Quran is fully factual and if something we can’t understand from Quran that doesn’t means it is incorrect…it means we are not yet been able to understand that phenomenon… May be with advancements in Science and technology later we can fully grasp it’s actual meaning….

        Best Regards

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by newsinfield (www.newsinfield.com) — December 12, 2018 @ 14:00

        • So you believe a horse with wings took Mohammad to heaven? Biologically that is simply not possible. It is a fable, and OK as a fable, but not as a historical fact. Hugs

          Like

          Comment by Scottie — December 12, 2018 @ 14:05

  12. Yes I do believe… So you are referring to SHAB-E MIRAJ ( Ascent of Prophet Muhammad ) and regarding horse you are referring to Burraq.

    Hadiths clearly state that Burraq is a white mule-like animal. There is no mention of wings. Only earthly animals with material bodies need wings to fly against the gravitational force.
    The basic constituent of Burraq’s body, as the word indicates, is “electrical energy”, instead of the elements of earth. There is nothing unscientific about this. The realities pertaining to the subjects which science has not covered yet cannot be termed unscientific. Science has not comprehended till date, the subject of spirits and spiritual bodies.

    There are a large number of Allah’s creations that are invisible to human eyes, as human sight can only comprehend the matter and not energy. The angels and the Jinns possess non-material bodies constituted of light and heat energies. The existence of other beings should not be unbelievable.

    And yes I believe in jinn and angel and it is not unscientific… We live in a very tiny part of solar system and we assume we understand the universe…this assumption itself is incorrect…we are scientifically developing and trying to reach other planets to understand and explore…yet our knowledge is not even 10% of whole universe….
    I hope you understand what I am trying to convey….

    Best Regards

    Like

    Comment by newsinfield (www.newsinfield.com) — December 12, 2018 @ 14:17

    • No sorry, mules do not raise into the air unless it is a tornado or hurricane. There is no animal that is made up of only electrical energy.

      There are no beings with out bodies, there is nothing magical or supernatural in the world. The supernatural has never been proven and in fact can not be proven.

      There are no Jinns and no angels with supernatural powers. You say we live in a tiny part of the universe, and that is true. But we understand the nature of the universe we living in. And for an animal or a being to exist on this planet in our reality it needs a physical body.

      Side point, ever wonder why all this magical mystical stuff stopped being part of every day life when we humans gained the ability to record, document and analyze them.

      Look as a fable, as a story, as a life guide maybe the Koran and associated books might have a use. They are not however historical fact, they did not predict science not known at the time, and they are not with out errors.

      In case you feel I am picking on Islam unreasonably know I take the same view of all holy books and texts. I treat the bible the same as I do the Koran. I have nothing but scorn for any Christian who thinks the bible is completely true and with out error.

      I hope you understand what I am trying to convey. Have a good one. Hugs

      Like

      Comment by Scottie — December 12, 2018 @ 14:34

      • Yes totally agree..it’s upto the person to believe it or not.
        And being a rational mind and doing our own analysis is the best part. More power to you!

        Regards

        Liked by 2 people

        Comment by newsinfield (www.newsinfield.com) — December 12, 2018 @ 14:45

        • Be well. Thanks for stopping by, and come back again. There are many things on my Toy Box other than religion so you may find something you like here. Be well. Hugs

          Like

          Comment by Scottie — December 12, 2018 @ 14:47

          • Yes sure I will definitely visit…and I am curious to know too….
            As you agreed that we live in tiny part of universe… Yes Our observable universe (the one we can detect with today’s equipment) consists roughly of 100 billion galaxies with each galaxy consisting of about 100 billion stars. (Number of observable stars = 100bln x 100bln; that’s one with 22 zeroes next to it).

            If you can count 23,000 stars per second you will need more than 13 billion years to finish counting!!! 🤔🤔

            Aldo to add a point, this observable universe is just a fraction of the entire universe. 

            So we can agree on one point that seeking knowledge is never-ending process and in the meantime we will discover many unknown unbelievable facts….

            So Happy learning….😊😊

            Best Regards

            Liked by 1 person

            Comment by newsinfield (www.newsinfield.com) — December 12, 2018 @ 16:03

            • Hello News. I think there is a lot we can agree on. I am also not interested in forcing anyone to change their mind if they are not harming my self or others. I have no bias against a person with a personal belief or code for living life as long as they allow others to do so also. The only time I am anti-theist is when a theist uses their religion to bash or harm others, or force others to live according to the theist religious beliefs. I also do not like teaching kids religion before they are old enough to judge the ideas for themselves. To tell a little kid they are going to be punished for ever and ever if they don’t please an invisible being they can hardly grasp.

              To the observable universe I find it fascinating that the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. It doesn’t violate the laws of light speed because the it self is growing, which means we will never be able to see the edges of the universe and will eventually be alone in our own little spot.

              Science is a wondrous tool we have learned to use. Medications, biology, geology, paleontology, astrophysics , and physics and so much more.

              Be well. Hugs

              Like

              Comment by Scottie — December 12, 2018 @ 16:37

  13. 😀 Oh, very interesting stuff! “This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.”

    Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by inspiredbythedivine1 — December 12, 2018 @ 15:08

  14. For myself I know very little about Islam (and I hope it stays that way~!). Brrrr.

    I’ve stated before and shall say so again that Islam was/is a system created by a very clever man to establish great wealth and power. Clever, with a wide grasp of human nature—and entirely ruthless.

    Definitely not a humanist.

    There’s theory, and there’s fact. Theory can often be picked through by the less scrupulous to isolate gems that reinforce and justify their own world views. Burning someone at the stake might seem to us today to be a wee bit unkind, but hey, the justification was that the Good Book commanded it—and it liberated souls to return to their maker. Win/win all ’round, no?

    Any system can be perverted by the unscrupulous and Islam is a major contender. So for myself I justify my own actions against my own standards, and my datum before I do anything to anyone else is “Would I like this done to me?”

    Islam and Christianity (and anything else that slithered out of the Middle East) (Abraham, I’m referring to you, you antisocial bastard) are NOT systems for salvation but simply systems to enslave the minds—and thereby the bodies—of men. Men, note—females seem lesser beings (in Islam especially) despite the apologia.

    I tried to read the Koran—not as she should be read, ‘cos I don’t do Arabic—but I couldn’t get past the repetitive and hypnotic chanting phrases. Take them out and the vast tome becomes a pamphlet.

    I say again:

    Contradictions do NOT exist.
    If ever you find an apparent contradiction, look to its premises because at least one of them is false.

    I have to ask: are there any apparent contradictions in the Koran? The Bible? ANY ‘holy’ book at all?

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Argus — December 12, 2018 @ 15:46

  15. Recycling from Insp’s inspired comment above:

    “This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.”

    I have to ask (as I do the Christians of their God, whom I believe is the same divinity) (different franchises, that’s all)—

    —Is God then a colossal bloody sadist?

    God set the seal on their hearts—so in simple terms, they have no alternative but to be sinners. Established by Act of God, no less.
    And what do we do with sinners, hmmmm? Into the pit with the buggers and no time off for good behaviour.

    I prefer Islam if that eternity of boozing and whoring is to be believed … sure beats singing praises to an incomparable ego-maniac.

    As for not doubting—any book that enters like that blows credibility right from the start: what the hell was its author so afraid of?

    Speak up … oh, yes—

    —the Truth. Gotcha.

    Like

    Comment by Argus — December 12, 2018 @ 21:47


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